Conversations Over Funnels: The New Era of Marketing with Tom Schwab

Freddy D: 00:02:07

Hey, superfan superstar Freddie D.

Here in this episode 102, we're joined by Tom Schwab, the godfather of podcast interview marketing and a true pioneer in using podcast guest appearances and AI powered strategies to drive business growth.

ew Valet, Tom has helped over: 1500

He's also the author of Podcast Guest Profits, widely considered the bible of podcast marketing. Get ready. Tom's here to show us why you're not just one funnel away, but one conversation away from growing your business. Let's dive in.

Welcome, Tom, to the Business Superfans podcast.

Freddy D: 00:03:07

Freddy, I am thrilled to be here.

Freddy D: 00:03:09

Yeah, we're excited to have you. We had a great conversation before we started recording.

We both spent some time in Chicago and talked about the Bears and the Cubs and all that stuff and being super fans of those teams. So, yeah, excited to have you.

Freddy D: 00:03:24

Oh, excited to be here. And it's like, yeah, that the idea of we promote what we love probably more than they do, right?

Tom Schwab: 00:03:32

Absolutely.

Freddy D: 00:03:33

I didn't know the Cubs were playing their opener until my brother in law told me about it. And he was promoting it more than the owner of the company was.

Freddy D: 00:03:42

Sure. So, Tom, what is your backstory? I know you've been an engineer, you've been involved in the military and things like that.

What's the story that came up to create Interview Valet? I mean, there's a whole backstory that took place before Interview Valet arrived.

Freddy D: 00:03:59

Commerce case study in about: 2014

People said, well, how did you grow that company from a regional player to a national leader and sell it? I said it was guest blogs, but they don't work anymore.

I hypothesized that for the same reason we tapped into that audience, you could do the same thing with podcast interviews. My grandfather, God rest his soul, was doing it. He'd go to the country club, he'd go to the rotary.

And people have been doing it as seen on tv, as seen on radio.

Tom Schwab: 00:04:39

Right.

Freddy D: 00:04:39

And now it's really leveraging other people's audiences on podcast interviews. We've been doing it a decade. We've got a team of 22 that works with thought leaders to get them on podcast interviews as a marketing channel.

And I think it's a great way to put your point of view out there, the vision, and attract the super fans. Right. I always say people will either turn you up or turn you off. Either one is fine.

Freddy D: 00:05:06

Sure.

And what you brought up there is really important because it is the new way of marketing these days, because now you can share your authenticity, provide value, and it positions you as an expert in your vertical. It's shareable. So it's not like just direct mail where you send out the one piece to an individual.

In today's world, you can share the podcast, hey, you need to listen to this episode. And we can bring up our smartphone and you can forward the link to that person. It's a whole different ecosystem of communications.

Freddy D: 00:05:38

It is. And I think we've gone beyond attention to trust, because for so long, people were buying attention.

And that's what the influencers do, they buy attention on social media, but people aren't buying from them, they're buying from people that they trust. And I think it's an interesting dilemma now, right? It's not that loud, counterable marker that's getting all the business.

No, it's the practitioner, that humble hero sharing their information. And now the platforms exist where they can do that and really reach their clients wherever they are.

Freddy D: 00:06:12

And we're kind of blending new school, which is all the modern social media stuff, and the platforms and the tools, and now AIs come into the conversation. But the guys that are really accelerating are still those that bring in old school stuff back into there.

So it's just like you just said, Tom, building that reputation, providing that value, acknowledging people's birthday, recognition. One of the things I talk about is the little things are really the big things in today's world.

Freddy D: 00:06:41

I had a client that called it Warren Buffett Marketing. And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, Warren Buffett would never invest in anything he didn't understand.

Tom Schwab: 00:06:52

Right.

Freddy D: 00:06:53

Consequently, he lost out on Apple.

But he said, for too long, I've been spending money on marketing that I didn't understand for decades, spent money on SEO, trying to chase this elusive algorithm. And he's like, now I've got to understand the marketing, and if I can go someplace, get introduced by the thought leader, right?

Have a discussion with people I know that drives my business, Right?

And there's like the same things you were talking about where you acknowledge somebody, you wish them a happy birthday, you acknowledge their promotion, those little things, and people will say, well, those aren't scalable. Well, it may not Be scalable. But you know what? They're really effective.

And I think too often now in life we're getting more efficient at things that are getting less effective.

Tom Schwab: 00:07:43

Right.

Freddy D: 00:07:44

Where they're like, I could send a million emails right now and they'd all go to spam. You know, why don't you just talk to one person?

Freddy D: 00:07:51

What a novel concept, right?

I mean, it's quite interesting because my success in sales was the relationships I built in helping those individuals achieve their goals and their aspirations at the companies that they were at. I got involved in the inception of SAS basically in computer aided design and computer manufacturing. We called it CAD Cam Market Space.

I was selling to tool and die shops and the objective was not selling the technology, even though that was my job.

I evolved to where I was really looking at the business strategy for them and how my tool helped them get that goal and then maintaining that relationship afterwards. They became my superfan and they were promoting me and said, you need to talk to this shop and that shop. It collapsed the whole sales cycle.

Because now I was an invited guest.

Freddy D: 00:08:47

Exactly. I mentioned the last company we built, the guest blogs, but as you said that the way we really got it off the ground was all personal referrals.

We'd work with one client and they happen to be orthopedic surgeons. The orthopedic surgeons would talk to other orthopedic surgeons and they were solving the problem. And it was, go talk to Schwabi.

I started to get calls from it. That's the best kind of marketing. When you don't have to pay for it, you don't have to do it. You've got other people marketing selling for you.

And that makes it fun too.

Freddy D: 00:09:20

Yeah. And that's where I come up with the term. They're a super fan. They're a super fan of you.

They're taking time out of their day to promote you because of what you've done for them. You know, there's an old saying, people forget what you said, people forget what you did, but everybody will remember how you made them feel.

Freddy D: 00:09:37

Exactly.

Freddy D: 00:09:39

So let's go into what does interview valet do?

Freddy D: 00:09:44

So our point of view is that everybody's biggest problem is obscurity.

Tom Schwab: 00:09:50

Right.

Freddy D: 00:09:51

There are thousands of people right now that would buy your product or service. They just don't know you exist. So the question is how to get known. Right. So many people will say, just break through the noise.

Tom Schwab: 00:10:04

Right.

Freddy D: 00:10:04

Most people are just adding to the noise. I'd rather get in on the conversation.

So we're working with coaches, consultants, professional services, category designers, even a lot of nonfiction authors to go out there and identify the right podcasts that their ideal clients are listening to. Then craft the message so that you're interesting to the podcast. We reach out to the podcast hosts.

We've got relationships, we've been doing it for a decade. And really it's more than just podcast guesting.

It's using it as a marketing channel to help move people from being a passive listener to an actor visitor, to an engaged lead. So we help people use podcast interviews as a marketing channel.

Freddy D: 00:10:55

Now, do you work with the guests to help them understand if they've never done podcasting, what do you do with this? Say, okay, I raise my hand, says, yes, I'd love to be on podcasts. I've never done one. What do I do?

Freddy D: 00:11:08

Yes. And we work with them. We'll give them all the equipment so that they sound great. We do a practice interview and it's interesting.

We've got the entire gamut, right? So we've got some people that are media trained, but we've got to talk with them. And it's like, this is not television.

You've got to tell stories, right? You've got to give longer answers. A lot of the people we work with, Freddie, are introverts and they're like, well, what will I talk about?

And I'm like, this is the great part, is it's not like giving a 45 minute keynote. It's just having a discussion. And I think introverts really excel there because they're used to one on one conversations.

Pretty much everybody's comfortable on Zoom now. And they talk about their business, they talk about their passions. Nobody's going to ask me about my opinion on macroeconomic policies.

I've got no expertise in that. But as we talk about the business and things that I'm interested in, those are the things that people ask you.

People are more ready for podcasts than ever and will also listen to their first few podcasts to give feedback. One of the most common feedback is slow down. 70% of all podcasts are listened to sped up. Often people get excited. They'll talk faster and faster.

I always give this example. Early on, a buddy of mine said, why did you call the company Interview Ballet? And I'm like, no, it's interview with a V.

I said, ballet, that's stupid. He's like, I thought so too, but you say so dang fast. That's what I heard. So I had to remind myself to slow down on the interviews.

We help our clients with all of that.

Freddy D: 00:12:53

You bring up an interesting point, because I was saying, business superfans super fast, and it was picking it up. And you would listen, it would say business super fan, not super fans. Those little things. Go back to the little things are the big things.

So I've slowed down in how I introduced the show. Just like you said, it was boom, boom, boom.

But the other thing that you brought up, Tom, that's really important, and I want to reiterate that is stories sell. When I would sell manufacturing software, web design services for interpreting services, I always incorporated a story into it to pull somebody in.

It wasn't always about how cool my stuff was. It was how my stuff helped somebody else go from this point in business to that point in business, people were intrigued.

They said, well, geez, I want to have that happen to my business. And so now they were emotionally connected to the conversation, and that collapsed the whole sales cycle.

Freddy D: 00:13:55

You're so spot on. And the story should not be about me and my product or my service.

I remember early on my last company, I was covering the phones during lunchtime, and a happy customer called in and he's like, you guys are just like Preparation H. I paused. He's like, yeah, it's a compliment. He said, you provided fast relief. You were recommended.

And it really struck me that nobody cares about our product or service. They care about the problem in their rear end.

If you can start telling stories about the person that had a similar problem as you, this is what we did for them. This is the relief they got. Boy, people will start to relate to that.

I think that's the key to any story, is to put the spotlight not on you, but on the customer. Another super fan and say, you can be just like them.

Freddy D: 00:14:49

Also, Yeah, I saw a brilliant marketing strategy done via video, and I'm going to share the story because it was quite brilliant the way they did it. The company was an interpreting company. It was a competitor for the company I was working with.

Nate did a video of an agency providing services for multilingual children. I don't remember all the details specifically, but the video was more about the organization.

And it just happened to be that this interpreting company was providing the interpreting so that they could do the job they were doing with these children. The focus was really on the services company that was doing it. These guys were behind the scenes that made it happen.

And it really stuck me as some ingenious marketing. It wasn't talking about how wonderful I am.

It was really, look at the great Things that these people are doing, and we're just the guys behind the curtain pulling the levers and helping make them look like rock stars.

Freddy D: 00:15:56

And the flip side is if I put the spotlight on myself and it's just like, look at me, do this, do that, I might get some attention, but I'm not going to get the trust, I'm not going to get the empathy. And it's funny.

Even in social media now, there's a thought that the more eyeballs, right, that you've got in a picture or a video, the more trust it gets and the more they amplify it. So if it's just me in a picture, it goes to a certain level, but if it's me and other people, it goes to a different level.

People just like that, right? There's that old joke of, you know, how do you sell newspapers in a small town? Put everybody's name in it, right?

Everybody will buy a copy of it and their mom will buy five. You go back to that example that you gave every one of those people that their face was in that advertisement. They're going to promote that.

If you look on our website early on, I said, this is not the Tom Schwab show, right? This is not about me. It's about our clients. Every month we update the image on the top. It's always four different clients. It's usually diverse.

A couple females, a couple males, younger, older, different industries. I highlight them and give them more exposure. My title is chief evangelist Officer.

I'm supposed to be evangelizing for my company, my team for my category and all of those things. Turning the spotlight on your super fans gives them the love, appreciation and encouragement to go out and promote you.

Freddy D: 00:17:33

Sure, sure.

So Tom, share a story of somebody that was hesitant, never done a podcast before, was a business owner, and then how you guys brought him into your agency, got him set up, and that in turn helped grow their business.

Freddy D: 00:17:51

Yeah, there's so many out there. But the common theme that we have is I can think of one guy, Kevin, he came and he's like, what would I talk about?

And I believe that what's ordinary to you is amazing to others. What this person had thought about and gone through resonated with so many people.

He was doing alternative investments, self storage units, and he wanted to talk with other people like him. Sales reps making a lot of money but paying a lot of taxes. They were too busy to invest. He made this story and I'm like, that's amazing.

But it was ordinary to him. So we Started to focus on what are the themes and topics to talk about? Who do you talk to? And we started to really boil it down based on data.

Where are these people listening to podcasts? Then he got out there and talked about his story, how he got into it and how it changed his life.

Some of the people he worked with, and we weren't probably three months into it, he's calling me, thanking me so much. He expected to get more leads and more traffic, but he's like, I'm not getting more leads, I'm getting better leads.

And I think today everybody's talked about this sales funnel, right. If I can get a thousand people at the top, I'll get one out of the bottom.

And what he saw and what so many people see from podcast interview marketing is they go from a sales funnel to a cylinder. He talks and people either turn him up or turn him off. And that's fine because now he can talk to five people and have four become clients.

And that's really the power of the conversation. One of the things I always say, I learned so much from our clients. One of them said, I used to believe that I was one funnel away.

I just build a funnel and fill it.

Tom Schwab: 00:19:41

Right.

Freddy D: 00:19:41

And he's like, now I realize I'm one conversation away. And that's what we've seen so much with different clients. He built his entire business off of that. He enjoyed it.

It was consistent with his marketing and what he wanted to do. It was so great because not only did it help him, but it helped all of those people that heard him and became clients.

Freddy D: 00:20:03

Yeah. So I went back to old school.

Freddy D: 00:20:06

Conversation conversations are powerful. And I think especially today in the AI world, Right. I get emails and it's like, I don't know if this is a real person or not.

I'm sure not going to invest major amounts of money because I got some spam email. But if I hear somebody and it's like, wow, they understand me, that trust builds there and it becomes.

The sales calls after a podcast interview are really interesting. You know, Freddie being a sales guy, they're not so much sales calls anymore. They're qualification calls.

Freddy D: 00:20:40

Right.

Freddy D: 00:20:40

Because the people have already heard you, they've checked you out, they've listened. They already have said, yes, I like you, I appreciate your values.

Tom Schwab: 00:20:49

Right.

Freddy D: 00:20:49

I want to work with you. So really it's more of a qualification call. Is this a good fit?

Freddy D: 00:20:55

Yeah, it goes back to one of the sales approaches I used back in the day when the technology was new and computer aided design and manufacturing were new. I would invite a lunch and learn to all the VP of Engineering, VP of Manufacturing. We didn't really try to sell this technology.

We presented how it's transforming the manufacturing space, demonstrated our product to drive the point home. But it wasn't. Look at how wonderful it is. And it turns this and it flips that, and it saves time. We incorporated that in there, just like you said.

I got invited back to these shops and take a look and tell us how this could potentially transform our business. They invited me in. I was like inviting the fox into the hen house. Yeah, because you invited me in. So now you're already buying, just like you said.

Those people that are calling in from hearing them on multiple podcasts are inviting that person into their world. It's a completely different sales approach. It collapses that cycle.

And you don't get into the conversation so much about pricing and all that stuff because they're already sold.

Freddy D: 00:22:09

There's a phrase out there called category design, and it's very powerful. And one of the big things with that is to have a strong point of view. And I can think of one client we worked with, Spiro AI. It's a CRM company.

Their big thing was they hated CRM too. And they would come out and say that it's broken. It's not easy to work with. That's why we're anti CRM.

Once people are like, oh, yeah, I agree with that too, then they would look at them and say, oh, you've got a different way of doing this. Accomplishes a similar thing. But all of a sudden, we're not talking across the table anymore. Now we're partners.

We're both on the same side of the table. And just like you said, you get invited in as a peer.

And I always say if you talk about the problem, if you talk about that point of view, but now we're talking shoulder to shoulder. If you're just talking about your product, now we're talking across the table, right?

Freddy D: 00:23:06

Yep. Yep. Those were one of the things I had learned when I would sit there and talk to the owners of the company.

What were their challenges and issues and what was holding them back and stuff like that. And then we started talking about their vision and everything else.

We didn't get into the tools tool, and it was really about the objective and how can this tool help them accomplish that. A lot of those customers were my superfans. I wasn't the world's greatest prospector, but I had the best team promoting me to all their peers.

Freddy D: 00:23:42

I think there's a difference between selling a product or a widget and selling a service. Too often the people that are selling $7 products are saying you can use same thing to sell your high ticket offer or service.

If that was the case, Boeing and Ernst and Young would be selling off of Facebook ads and masterclasses and webinars.

Tom Schwab: 00:24:08

Right.

Freddy D: 00:24:08

It's not the same thing. And so this idea of that, it's not just a transaction.

Tom Schwab: 00:24:14

Right.

Freddy D: 00:24:14

It's one thing to sell a product.

Tom Schwab: 00:24:17

Right.

Freddy D: 00:24:17

Because if all they're looking at is the spec sheet, they don't need you as a sales rep.

Tom Schwab: 00:24:22

Right.

Freddy D: 00:24:23

We'll just look at the spec sheet of the different ones. But what they were really buying was the service, the support, everything that went with that. And that's the intangible.

And that's where you bring value and people see the differentiation there.

Tom Schwab: 00:24:37

Right.

Freddy D: 00:24:38

I am not a Cubs fan because they have the best winning record. I am not a super fan of the Cubs based on the spec sheet. No. It's the emotional tie to people buy.

Freddy D: 00:24:51

Emotionally and justify logically has been like that forever and will always be that way. With the Cubs the perfect example because you've got the super fans that are die hard.

They did win one World Series, but they waited 100 years for that to happen. But it did happen. We witnessed it.

People today are getting caught up in the speed of trying to be an influencer and really not building that relationship. You really need to blend the two.

You need to blend the relationship, old school relationship with today's new way of incorporating AI to really differentiate yourself from those sitting on the sidelines. I have a saying that there's three types of people.

Those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that wonder what the heck happened.

Freddy D: 00:25:41

What happened. I remember that one from the Navy. I think of another one that Christopher Lockhead, father of categories Zion, talks about.

He's like, there's three types of businesses. Those that suck, those that don't suck, and those that are legendary. And the only ones that people talk about are the ones that are legendary, right?

Maybe bad reviews for the ones that are really bad. But you want to just be legendary, something that people can remark about.

That's the whole idea of being remarkable, being such that someone would remark about your company.

Freddy D: 00:26:16

And I think that's some of the stuff that you guys do because you guys have sent me some great referrals and great guests to the show. They've been great people, great guests on the show. And we've had Some great conversations. So a testament to the things that you guys do.

I'm a super fan of Interview Valet because of the quality of the guests that you've brought on to my show.

Freddy D: 00:26:39

I appreciate that. We've been doing it for a decade, and one of our core principles is heck yes or no.

When somebody comes to our company, I talk with all of the prospects, and there's two questions, right? Can we bring them great results? And they can they bring great value to a podcast?

Both of those have to be a heck yes before we even think about engaging with them. We look at it and say, we're a heck yes. And then they've got to be a heck yes, too. This idea of, well, maybe never works out.

Tom Schwab: 00:27:13

Right? Right.

Freddy D: 00:27:14

I want to be a heck yes or a no. And it's the same way with the podcast we work with. We're proud to work with them. Is this a great podcast? Heck yes. Then we work with them.

If not, no judgment, but no, we don't work with them.

Freddy D: 00:27:29

That's an important thing, because same thing with whatever you're doing in life. That's a life statement. Because when you look at that and think about it, we make decisions based on the experiences that we experience.

At the end of the day, you go to a restaurant and it's a bad experience. You don't go back. You buy something, and the onboarding experience is not good. You don't go back. You're not a super fan.

In today's world, we look at all the reviews, pull out our smartphone, and see what everybody's saying. It's a social proof.

Before you make a decision, you're doing that, in a sense, of how you're qualifying the people that you're representing and the podcast that you're promoting those people. Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:28:19

And it's one of these things where I've gotten to the age where I don't make judgments. I try not to make judgments, but I can say whether or not you align with us and the podcast we work with or whether you don't.

Tom Schwab: 00:28:32

Right.

Freddy D: 00:28:33

Our mission is to personally introduce inspiring thought leaders to millions of people they could serve for the betterment of all. And I remember when I showed that to my mom, she's like, what's that got to do with podcasts? And I'm like, it's not about the podcast.

It's about those connections and the discussions. It's really important that we see life as a win for everybody.

Tom Schwab: 00:28:56

Right.

Freddy D: 00:28:56

For the betterment of all. That means the host has to win the audience has to win, the client has to win. So it's not just using and abusing an audience. That's important.

And the other one too is inspiring thought leader.

Tom Schwab: 00:29:11

Right.

Freddy D: 00:29:12

are people out there that in: 2025

I want inspiring thought leaders that have new ideas and can help us see the future and make the best out of that.

Freddy D: 00:29:33

Yeah, because like you just said, blogging is important, but it's more yesteryear. And today podcast is probably the new blogging. In a sense.

Freddy D: 00:29:44

It is. And I laugh sometimes when I hear the word podcast.

Tom Schwab: 00:29:48

Right.

Freddy D: 00:29:48

Podcasts have been around now, what, over 20 years. The pod refers to an ipod. Most of the people that are listening to podcasts today have never owned an ipod in their life.

But it's still called a podcast. Right. They could be listening to it on terrestrial radio. Still a podcast.

Tom Schwab: 00:30:07

Right.

Freddy D: 00:30:08

They could be watching it on YouTube, I guess. It's still a podcast, right? Today they say Joe Rogan gets heard by 100 million people.

And Freddie, when I heard that stat, I was like, there is no way one out of three adults in the US is listening to a three hour podcast. So I looked in our database and he gets 2.2 million downloads per episode. That makes him the number one podcast in the U.S.

the other 98 million people, they're listening to that 60 second clip or that 90 second clip, and that's where they're getting the information. So I don't care what they call it. It's just so that people get connected with the right ideas.

Freddy D: 00:30:51

No, that's a really good point that you bring up because the majority are really listening to the snippet, because a lot of times that's where you put the value.

Freddy D: 00:31:02

And it's one of those things where there's a lot of problems in the world, but there's no better time to be alive. I'm an engineer by degree and I've written a lot of blogs in my life, but every one of them felt like a homework assignment.

Now we can just talk and we can share the video, we can share the audio, we can get the transcript, make blogs out of it and articles out of it.

It's really an amazing time where we can create in the way that's easiest for us and then repurpose it in the way that's easiest for other people to consume.

Freddy D: 00:31:37

Yeah, it's a completely new game. Because now you can do the podcast episode, get all the transcripts, create the blog.

You can make reels out of it and share those snippets as we just talked. That usually gets more traction. I've seen it myself. When I put out snippets, reels get more traction than my episode.

Freddy D: 00:31:55

Yeah. We work with content companies and SEO companies where we partner with them. The content company used to send a film crew to their office after Covid.

Everybody was working remotely. Still need B roll footage. So they realized that they could get them on podcast interviews.

They get all of this content that they can use, and they're getting months worth of content from Interview. Another client, Mickey Kennedy, runs a great company called E Releases.

Freddy D: 00:32:27

Oh, yeah. I used the platform years ago when I was in charge of global sales. Used it for press releases.

Freddy D: 00:32:34

Well, press releases. And that's what you know him for. Well, his SEO company said that term, that keyword is so competitive, you will never rank for that.

Tom Schwab: 00:32:46

Right.

Freddy D: 00:32:46

Mickey has been on podcasts for years talking about all the different ways small business can use press releases and the best, best practices for that. The search engines are listening, AI is listening, and all of a sudden he starts ranking for all these different keywords.

He goes back to the SEO company and says, how did I do this? And they're like, oh, it's just from all the podcast interviews. So there's great ways. You know, that whole idea of exposure brings opportunity.

Freddy D: 00:33:13

Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. Yeah. Tom, it's been a great conversation, and we could probably go on for several hours on this stuff.

We both have engineering backgrounds, so thank you for the time. How can people find you?

Freddy D: 00:33:29

Thank you for having me here. The best way to find me is just go back to interview ballet with a V.com forward slash superfans. Everything Freddie and I talked about will be there.

There's an assessment. 10 questions. Will podcast interview marketing work for you? I wrote a book called Podcast Guest Profits.

How to grow your business with the targeted interview strategy. You can buy it on Amazon or if you want a free copy, happy to mail you a copy. If you're in the U.S. if you're outside, I'll email you a copy.

And then, of course, I'll put my calendar scheduling link there. All my social media. If you want to get in touch with me, that's back@interview valet.com forward/superfans.

Freddy D: 00:34:14

Yeah, we'll definitely have that in the show notes. Tom, thank you very much for your time today, and we definitely would love to have you on the show down the road and continue the conversation.

Freddy D: 00:34:24

I would enjoy that.

Freddy D: 00:34:25

Thank you. Hey Superfan superstar Freddie D. Here.

Before we wrap, here's your three A playbook power move to attract ideal clients, turn them into advocates, and accelerate your business success. Here's a top insight from this episode. You're not one funnel away. You're one powerful conversation away from growing legendary business.

So here's your business growth action step. Book one podcast interview this week where you can share a bold story that connects emotionally and positions you as a trusted guide, not the hero.

If today's conversation sparked an idea for you, or you know of a fellow business leader who could benefit, share it with them and grab the full breakdown in the show notes. Let's accelerate together and start creating business super fans who champion your brand.