Revolutionizing Payments: Shaking Up the B2B Scene with Perryn Holtrop

Perryn Holtrop: 00:00:00

During the pandemic in: 2020

ompany, PayNation, in June of: 2020

Everybody wanted a digital payment more people were leery about taking cash and check and other kinds of form of payments. And we were right in the heart of all of that.

I had a really good book of business prior to starting my company, so it wasn't like I had to start from scratch. But by the time I started Paint Nation, I had a really large book where I could have been okay and relax, but that's just not how I'm wired.

Freddy D: 00:00:41

But I am the world's biggest super fan.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:00:44

You're like a super fan.

Freddy D: 00:00:45

Welcome to the Business Superfans Podcast. We will discuss how establishing business superfans from customers, employees and business partners can elevate your success exponentially.

Learn why these advocates are a key factor to achieving excellence in the world of commerce.

We discuss the invaluable insights of business owners who have successfully implemented the strategies in the book to build their own team of devoted super fans. Gain insightful knowledge from the experts who create applications to help you create passionate super fans.

This is the Business Super Fans Podcast with your host, Freddy D. Freddy, Freddy.

Hey super fans. Superstar Freddie D.

Here in this episode 103, we're joined by Perrin Haltrop, CEO and founder of Pay Nation, a forward thinking fintech company based in Southern California.

Under Perrin's leadership, Pay Nation is transforming how B2B companies handle payments, offering customized omnichannel solutions and that make payment acceptance simpler, more secure and highly scalable. With a sharp focus on industries like manufacturing, distribution, e Commerce and SaaS, Perry and his team are solving real world challenges.

Not only reducing credit card fees with interchange optimization and helping businesses integrate payments seamlessly while boosting security, but also in many instances, increasing throughput and driving overall profitability. Get ready for an insightful conversation on innovation, growth and a future of payments. Welcome, Perryn to the Business Superfans Podcast.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:02:39

Hey, thanks for having me. This is awesome.

Freddy D: 00:02:42

Yeah, we're really excited about you. It's an important topic of payment systems.

There's a lot of them out there and I'm excited to dive deep into that so our listeners can understand the benefits of the services you provide compared to some of the other platforms that are out there.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:02:58

Yeah, there's a lot of companies out there in the payment space, we specifically focus on B2B. A lot of basically companies that are selling goods, services to other businesses.

A lot of manufacturer, distributor, wholesale was a little bit of a more sophisticated sale. It's not just saying, let me walk in, grab your statement, lower your price. A lot of solution. Selling is what we do.

Freddy D: 00:03:21

Sure. So, per, let's go back to the backstory. What were we doing before Pay Nation came about?

I mean, there's a whole story of how you ended up getting to be running Pay Nation.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:03:34

Well, it's actually an interesting story. Before I got in the payment space, I was actually in the comedy business, really managing some developmental act comedians.

I was booking for a casino here in California, was involved in comedy as a hooker, as a manager, wasn't making any money.

It was a fun gig, but just really trying to help some guys that I thought were really good and really funny make a little bit of money in comedy, but not a ton. I had a friend of mine who worked at a payments company, and he was like, hey, man, you know, you're really good at sales.

And I had several sales jobs before and owned my own businesses before. So was an entrepreneurial type of sale or company. He's like, hey, you can build up a residual and make some money.

And I was like, you know, that's what I need. I wanted to make some money while I was working the comedy gig. I needed a little bit of income to supplement my income, and so I got involved in it.

I loved it. I was like, man, this is a great business. Kind of work at your own leisure.

And when I first started in the payments industry, everyone was working restaurants and hospitality, and that was the Lohane Fruit. And so I did that for the first year. My background was in the manufacturing space.

Before I was doing comedy, I owned some patents and worked with a lot of manufacturers and distributors. That was my network. My first year in payments, I need to get more into the B2B space.

role. During the pandemic in: 2020

mpany, Pay Nation, In June of: 2020

Everybody wanted a digital payment more. People were really leery about Taking cash and check and all the other kinds of form of payments. And we were right in the heart of all of that.

I had a really good book of business prior to starting my company, so it wasn't like I had to start from scratch. By the time I started PayNation, I had a really, really, really large book where I could have been okay and relax, but that's just not how I'm wired.

So: 2020

Freddy D: 00:05:58

What a great story.

But you know, comedy and humor is very important in sales because I really want to emphasize that because that was one of my successes in sales was getting people to laugh.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:06:10

Absolutely.

Freddy D: 00:06:11

It loosens, it takes the stress out and it's a huge icebreaker.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:06:15

I can't agree more. You know, I had this conversation with a buddy of mine. I tell this story quite a bit.

When I first got into more of a sales role and doing more things in the public eye, so to speak, in terms of really working with larger companies and so forth. I have always been somewhat of an extrovert. I'm very social and so forth.

now how to work a room. Maybe: 2010

People see me now and like that's true because I'm very outgoing.

But the comedy, being around comedians and being around a lot of guys that are really funny off the cuff, I really allowed me to learn one liners, how to say little zingers, say something funny.

The timing I notice in networking meetings, conference rooms or whatever, finding that one time to say something slick where you get everybody loosened up and funny. It just changes the whole dynamic of the meeting. I can't agree with you more, Freddie.

It's absolutely helps even in meetings, serious meetings, where there's a lot of money on the line, there's a lot of things going on and everybody super tense. You got a bunch of accountants and CFOs in the room, bean counters. You need that ability to lighten up the room.

Freddy D: 00:07:33

Right.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:07:34

To be able to do that is health and sales.

Freddy D: 00:07:36

Yeah, I can relate because I used to be an engineer. I happen to progress to where I'm a left brain, right brain guy now. You remind me of going to networking Groups.

I used to go, and people say, you need to go to a networking group. When I got out of the software business, I'm going, why do I want to go to a networking group? What am I going to do there? Who am I going to meet?

ve it burned into my brain is: 3544

Or I'd go to the association, which was the same people in the market, go into a networking group. I'd be like, that was the guy that bought the drink, sat in a corner and go, okay, now what do I do?

Perryn Holtrop: 00:08:18

Yeah, I was kind of the same way. You never know who anyone knows. For me, kind of talking about comedy a little bit more.

Before I was involved in comedy business, I had a very, very low tolerance for small talk. I was able to see the BS meter real quick. I'll be honest, this guy's full of crap.

And I noticed that in the comedy world or even in the entertainment world, you never really know who anyone knows. So you kind of have to be a little bit more tolerant to what people tell you because you don't know who anyone knows.

And that really helped me in the networking world because I was really more focused on really listening to what a person, what they do. I'll tell you another story. I read this book about body language.

And when you're talking to people, not have your hand crossed or your hands in your pocket or off to the side, you got to kind of show them your heart and be interested. I noticed that I would always be annoyed when I would talk to certain people. They would ask me a question and I could tell they weren't engaged.

Like, why'd you ask me that question if you don't care my answer? But I noticed I was that same guy doing that. Right. So I changed that. And I started really caring about what people are talking about. Really care.

Listening to what their business is, what their industry is, what their discipline is, and really care. And when I started to really care about what people do, networking became so easy for me.

Freddy D: 00:09:38

Yeah, it's a game changer.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:09:40

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:09:40

So total game changer.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:09:42

Total game changer.

Freddy D: 00:09:43

So let's go back to Pay Nation here and talk about how do you guys compare? And I'm going to just throw some names out there like square stripe, PayPal.

Those are what most people are familiar with, especially small SMBs, which is Our target market for this podcast show. So what differentiates Pay Nation from those platforms?

Perryn Holtrop: 00:10:03

So Those platforms, Square, PayPal, Stripe, those companies are what's called payment facilitators, a kind of software wrapped around the ability to take payment. Kind of started more as a peer to peer where I could pay you, you could pay me. Stripe has done a really good job with the integration.

They have a really good tech stack. Their stuff is more related to E commerce business and those kinds of things.

A lot of ISVs, a lot of fintech companies that have software want to integrate payments really quick. There's a need for that. We do some of that. Our focus is more middle market, lower middle market, B2B companies.

So a lot of manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, companies that are using some type of accounting software or ERP software where they want to integrate accounts receivable within their software natively.

A lot of our conversation is really just explaining to them the time value of money, showing that financing your own receivables in a traditional term environment, net 30, net 60. Sometimes doing a payment account receivable with a credit card is a lot cheaper and gets paid quicker.

So a lot of what we do is really focusing on those companies that are doing business with other companies. The Stripes and paypals of the world are more focused on smaller companies, more like mom and Pops.

I'm not saying they don't have bigger companies, of course they do. But they're really focused like Square.

I think the number is like 90% of their customers or businesses doing like 10 grand or less in volume per month or per year. I don't know exactly that number. They're focused on more smaller companies.

A lot of what we're focusing on are middle market companies that want to be like Big Brother Enterprise and they're a little bit more coachable, they're a little bit more open to things that we're able to bring to the table and consult with. Maybe they're graduating from a Quickbook and moving into something more high power like NetSuite or SAP.

We're going to be in the middle of that to make sure we're connecting with the right partner. We're going to connect all of the payments piece natively within there and make a more seamless environment.

So rather than being a payment processor, we're more of an AP automation company, helping with the automation of getting payments, receiving or paying payments. More frictionless, if that makes any sense.

Freddy D: 00:12:18

Oh, totally. It totally does. Because for example, I was working with a interpreting and translation company dealing with government Agencies.

So they were using QuickBooks but trying to get payments online was very difficult.

So the company ended up getting lots of checks because, you know, QuickBooks is limited and then you have the fee and could only use QuickBooks payment system. You can't unlock it.

And so what you guys are doing, from what I understand, I just want to reiterate, is that you're teaming up with a company, changing out maybe their accounting platform to a better one that enables more customers to pay through the payment platform versus mailing out an old fashioned check.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:13:00

Yeah, our goal is to get people off a check or at least at minimum digitizing that process. There's still people that want to pay with check, but rather than waiting for the proverbial check in the mail, we can digitize it.

Do you know an E Check Online or ACH Online? We have a lot of clients that use QuickBooks.

We have an integration for QuickBooks that allows you to automate the QuickBooks invoicing and still be able to use a third party service like us. So you're not married to the service that books users. So there's a myriad of different ways.

What I always say in the B2B space, especially in the payments world, there's no magic bullet. There's always some kind of nuance. Everybody has a different pain point, different issue that they have.

Our goal is to really talk, find out what their payment flow is, find out what the North Star for them and try to get closer to getting to that North Star for that business and just make them efficient. I tell this story all the time. I had a client a few years ago that was still accepting checks.

They found out later that the postman was on the tape and they had a $500,000 check that was delivered to their office. It never got there.

I don't know if the postman gave it to somebody or whatever, but the criminals were able to cash it and get that money and the company never was able to recoup that 500 grand. This happens all the time, $26 billion in check fraud every year. So there's just no reason to check.

We still have clients that write credit card numbers on a piece of paper. Everything is digital now. And that's what we try to really speak to our clients.

I know you have a way of doing things that you're used to, but let's show you how to do it in the 21st century. That's going to be safer, probably cheaper, more secure, and you're going to get paid quicker when, when to go Back.

Freddy D: 00:14:43

To the fraud with the company I worked with. It was clever. They had requested. It was with the interpreting and translation company.

They had requested a translation project and they said, okay, we'll send out a cashier's check. It's more than the amount that you quoted, but we're going to have a second project coming to follow up the first project.

So that should cancel out the overage of the cashier's check. I was running the company for a bit and I didn't know any of this. It was being handled. You delegate and people take care of it.

All of a sudden, what happened? The fraud flew a flag with my accounting guy. He came to talk to me.

He says, we did the project and we delivered it and they're canceling the continuing project and they're asking for a refund. Fortunately, we didn't refund, but the cashier's check bounced because it was fraudulent.

And so we were out the money because we had to pay the translators to do the work. And so we lost only about 750 bucks. It wasn't disastrous, but it was a clever scam. And that's where your system comes in, because that can't happen.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:15:49

No, that's one thing about payments. This is it simply credit cards. If the money's not there, it's not going to get approved, right?

So if you run a card for, let's say $100,000 and it's approved, you get an authorization number, you know that money is as good as yours. Now, there's still obviously risk and chargebacks and it could have been a fraudulent car.

There's kind of a myriad of things there, but there are things that put in place a certain fraud tools in place that could mitigate a lot of that stuff. So fraud and chargebacks are a very big problem in industry. Specifically in the B2B space.

Majority of the clients that our clients work with are reoccurring customers. You're not dealing with the consumer where it's one offs. You're dealing with people that are buying stuff from you on a regular basis.

So you pretty much know all the clients they paying you. The biggest hurdle that we come across is everybody talks about the fees, everybody wants to save, not to pay what I need to pay.

But moving money isn't free. Trying to get money, one account to another, not free. Even in the crypto world, moving money to an another wallet, sometimes a fee.

People need to understand that moving money isn't free if the customer knows the default method of payment for their clients is A digital payment, credit card or ACH, you know, 70, 80, 90. Sometimes a percent of your income is coming from a digital payment. Factor in the cost of taking that payment like anything else, right.

Your insurance, your employees, any of the stuff that is there cost to do in business. Moving money should be a cost of doing business like anything else, right?

Freddy D: 00:17:22

So, Paris share a story of how Pay Nation worked with the client that was having payment challenges. And you guys stepped in and transformed their whole operation with what you guys do.

That in turn led them to becoming a super fan of Pay Nation and become your advocate attracting you more business.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:17:42

Yeah, I have lots of stories like that. One particular that always comes to mind and a story I tell quite a bit. We went into a.

This is actually not a B2B client, but they were a pretty large gymnasium that had a bunch of memberships for a young gymnast and all kinds of different events that they would do at their event. Really good business. The owner was great. And every single month they had I think seven or 800 members.

Every single month they had somebody in the office going in, having the cards on file or on a piece of paper and they would go ahead and hand key the card number for the customer every month, but process a payment for that month. Because every month it was a different amount. Wasn't always the same amount. So there wasn't a way to do.

Freddy D: 00:18:30

It on a systematized.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:18:31

Right?

Freddy D: 00:18:31

Yeah.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:18:32

And so we were able to go in and tokenize a lot of these cards, put all the information, create profile for each customer and really help it. I think the number was something like 10 hours a month or some crazy number, 20 hours a month to do this.

And we were able to do it where it took them 10 minutes every month. Eventually we implemented some software for them and it made it a little easier.

But they were able to alleviate so much extra time from all this data entry. The gals that were working the office were basically hired to do other stuff, but they were resulting to data entry people because of this.

It was a very big problem and alleviated. They became a super fan, got tons of business from them. We got so much referrals from our customer. This is a customer of ours to this day.

We've had this client for eight years now. We have lots of stories like that where people are just doing things the way they've been doing it for years.

No one really ever came in there and say there's a better or easier way to do it. You know, the biggest thing for us as humans is we don't like change.

Freddy D: 00:19:36

And that's hardest thing. Yeah.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:19:38

And so if we come in and we can show them the change that's there, very seamless, it's not really going to change much. It's going to make your life easier a lot of times. There's some pretty good adoption there. We get the pushback from time to time.

ter. So it's always hindsight: 2020

Freddy D: 00:19:58

Sure. And the ROI that you put on that investment. Yeah. It took you time to get that set up for that gymnasium.

However they're spending, let's just keep the math simple. Let's just say 20 hours because they're not sitting there every minute doing so. 20 hours over several days.

The ROI on that is dramatic because now those people can be productive doing something else. Attracting more members to the gymnasium, etc, versus spending 20 hours sitting in data entry.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:20:29

Yeah. Not to mention humid error. You got people typing in stuff wrong. With the wrong amounts, the wrong card, you get declines.

Whatever the situation is, you're assuming that all these cars that were entered was entered. Right the first time.

Freddy D: 00:20:42

Well, yeah. And then the problem would be in the recipient.

If the car's been declined two, three times because they made a mistake, the customer is getting an alert. They're going, what the heck is going on with this place? And so that's creating a negative.

So if you look at the whole gamut of everything, you guys really transformed that whole operation.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:21:03

Yeah, we did. And the owner to this day always sings our praises. I was on the phone with her maybe a couple months ago, just checking in on her.

She's like, hey man, how you doing? Just amazing. It's been years and years and she's still thankful. So you know, we have lots of stories like that. Another one, it always feels good.

We had another account, a pretty large shoe manufacturer. They've since moved on. They got acquired stunning the counter bars anymore. This was a shoe manufacturer and they had kind of the same situation.

A very large company, they did about 50 million a year and had account all of their customers that they sold shoes to. All of their credit card information in a three ring binder written down.

And they had a person in the office every month or every day for their accounts receivable. That was hand keying the cards into a terminal in their office with all of these cards on file.

They had about three large three ring lighters of card data from all their customers.

Freddy D: 00:22:07

That's insane.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:22:07

In today's world, it was an absolute nightmare. Them hand keying the cards. It was a cost issue, there was a data entry issue, there were error issues there.

And so we went in and we helped them create customer profiles for each one of those customers. Put all their card data in tokenize any crypto card. They were able to shred all those paperwork.

And now every time they had a customer that wanted to pay, they would just put in the amount and pay. Eventually they went to a ERP system.

I can't remember what they had, but we were able to integrate it into our payment platform to where the invoice automatically ingested into their system and it would automatically process the card. But we have this concept that we say here we talk about soft money and hard money. The hard money is go in, we save you on some fees.

Maybe you're overpaying the traditional thing that you see with payments. But the soft money is what you alluded to earlier about someone spending 20, 30, 40, 50 hours a month on data entry.

That we're able to automate that process.

And now that business owner can put that employee, if they're on a salary, use them and be more efficient putting them somewhere else rather than them doing a data entry job. So this is a very common thing.

You would think that in the 21st century more companies are automated with so much technology out there, but it's just not the case. This is why you see so many fintech companies opening up every single week.

There's a new company solution for some problem because there's so much inefficiencies out there, especially in the middle market space. You got small businesses, mom and pop shops doing their thing. You know, enterprise has done it well.

They got their systems in place and their processes in place with the middle market. Or those companies are trying to be like big Brother. A lot of people are not helping those middle market.

And we feel like we can help that middle market, especially me in the payment space later in my career.

Freddy D: 00:24:04

That's your market. Really?

Perryn Holtrop: 00:24:05

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:24:06

And your thing that you're doing is really important. You're minimizing if not eliminating their liability.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:24:14

For sure.

Freddy D: 00:24:15

If you stop and think about having three ring binders of credit cards, you're talking about a major problem. If the federales know about that, that's big problems.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:24:25

And the thing is, some people just don't know any better or their incumbent processor at the time or payment provider just didn't know any better. Or that's how they did it. There's a lot of bad actors in our space. The Client is only going to know what they know.

It takes a special person to come in a little bit more polish or savviness. Focus on those types of clients where we can share stories or experiences that some of our other clients have seen or done.

They're like, oh yeah, I like that, or oh yeah, I want to do the same thing. We're able to share.

We were talking off air about how your clients became a salesforce for you and your clients were referring you to other business stuff. What happens with us?

Freddy D: 00:25:06

Right. Once you build that relationship and solve the problems, they become super fans and they're more than happy to promote you.

You can't buy that kind of PR ads like Google, Facebook and LinkedIn ads can't compare to a super fan promoting you because now it's more of an introduction. It's not even a referral. Introductions are everything.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:25:28

Yeah, that's how we work. We work on introductions in the payment space, especially in the B2B space, specifically middle market or even enterprise.

You're not walking off the street and opening a door and talking to the owner. The decision maker is more likely not in the office or not able to talk to you.

You have to get introduced by their cfo, accounting department or IT guy.

Freddy D: 00:25:50

It's going to be another business owner walking to his buddy and they're talking about financial stuff and he says, oh man, you got to reach out to my buddy Perrin. He hooked me up and here's what he did. He's going to be telling them all.

The transformation that you did for their company. That's a super fan selling on your behalf.

Because John, the other guy is going to pick up the phone and says, hey, Perrin, Charlie said I needed to talk to you and that's it. It's done.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:26:16

You're in a lot of times.

What happens too is some of these CFOs of these companies or these controllers move around so you'll have a relationship with them, you'll do really solid with them at the company that they represent at that time. And then they move on to another company and the first thing they see is, oh, we have some problem with our payments piece. Or.

Or I got a guy that guy called that we used before and that happens a lot with us as well.

Freddy D: 00:26:39

Sure. Some tips, Perryn, on what an SMB should look for to identify an ideal payment processing partner.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:26:52

It's kind of a tough question to answer because there's so many nuances there.

Freddy D: 00:26:56

But I would say summary in three bullet points.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:26:59

Any company that's really just Focused on price. That's typically not a client we want to engage with because they only care about the best costs.

They're not really looking at the value we're bringing. And if you sell on price, you'll lose on price. The same thing goes for the guy selling it.

The guy that just coming in and say, I can save you a bunch of money, that's his only way of selling. You got to be leery of those kinds of people.

There's only so much money you can say, if I go into a business and they were getting overcharged and I'm able to save them some money because they were getting overcharged and I save them $1,000 a month.

Let's say the next guy comes in and said, I could save you $2,000 a month as well, when I just saved you a thousand and your fees are only fifteen hundred dollars a month. So I would say for a business owner, find somebody who's going to consult you.

What I say a lot of times is when you're a business owner, especially an up and coming business owner, you take advice from a lot of people. Maybe you're an accountant, maybe a lawyer, maybe a business coach, and some type of professional that's helping you with your business.

If you're a franchisee or talking to the franchisor that's helping you in 70, 80, 90, 100% of your income is coming from a digital payment, you should probably take advice from a payment professional like us, not a sales guy or gal that's just selling you something, Someone that's going to hold your hand and consult you and walk you down the potential pitfalls of taking a digital payment in your business. It's not just about who gives the best price. It's about the best technology, the best solutions, the best payment flow for your business.

There's not a one size fits all in this industry as much as everyone thinks that. Let me sell this person a point of sale or a counting service, or put a terminal on their counter and they're going to work.

It's not that easy anymore. There's too many nuances here. So I would say work with someone that's a payments professional that has the ability to consult you in your business.

Taking a digital payment as opposed to just a sales guy who knocked at your door to say, hey, I can save you some money.

Freddy D: 00:29:02

Very good point.

And I'm going to emphasize the following, and that is the fact that, you know, what you did with that gymnasium wasn't about saving the money on the processing aspect of it, it was really about transforming their business and their efficiency of their business. So when you're playing at that level.

For anybody that's a salesperson, this is a sales tip as well. You look at strategy and helping the business achieve their objectives. Because what you're providing is just a tool.

At the end of the day, it's a tool. But if you focus on that strategy, the cost of the tool becomes minimized.

Because now you're achieving business goals, you transform that business, put money back into their pocket from a productivity standpoint. Everything else, they're not going to worry about a quarter percent here or there, because that's not the conversation.

The conversation is you put money back in their pockets through productivity. More efficiency, better customer engagement with their customers. Complete game changer.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:30:08

Absolutely. We usually try to make price tertiary to the conversation.

When we walk into a choir and we're engaged with the client, the first question we ask is, walk us through your payment flow. How are you currently processing payment? What does that look like? Show us a demo on how you're taking a payment, how you're receiving a payment.

If you had a magic lamp and a genie and you were able to have three wishes, what would those three wishes be? What keeps you up at night? What are the things that you improve? We can dig into those kinds of things.

We can really dig into some of the efficiencies. Price is the easiest part of our job. If there's money to save, we're going to save it. Right.

But if we're just coming in to save you money, and I can save you a ton of money, but there's no way for us to integrate into your system or the process is going to be.

Freddy D: 00:30:52

Doesn't matter.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:30:53

Doesn't matter if you know a million dollars a year, but it takes you three times as long to process a payment that's not worth it to some.

Freddy D: 00:30:59

The other thing is now you're also having the conversation about business growth.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:31:04

Correct.

Freddy D: 00:31:04

Because so now you've changed the direction of the conversation to where do they see themselves in two, three years? That was one of my sales styles when I was selling through the manufacturing spaces. My software. My manufacturing software.

There's three or four other platforms that do the same stuff. But I changed the conversation not about the technology, but about the business. It was a business conversation. And that's what you're doing as well.

Pay Nation is a platform, but we're helping you from a business perspective.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:31:30

Absolutely. You know, we have our own technology too, so we're able to Leverage tech.

Sometimes that's I have a changes to this scenario, but everybody's got tech, everybody's got a partner that has good tech.

You can have the greatest tech in the world, but the person selling it doesn't know how to articulate to that customer to get them to understand the value. And that's kind of why we like middle market business.

Because a lot of those folks are usually very savvy business owners that know what needs to be done. Not to say the small businesses aren't savvy, but they're a little bit more polished.

A lot of times they're less focused on cost and more about efficiency. Because at the end of the day, we all know that when you get to the middle market or enterprise level, money's being made and money is being spent.

But the inefficiencies is what's draining profit.

Freddy D: 00:32:20

Margin to net income.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:32:22

Absolutely. If we can improve efficiency, savings is going to come. Exactly, exactly.

Freddy D: 00:32:27

Well, as we come to the end here, Baron, how can people find you PayNation us?

Perryn Holtrop: 00:32:33

We're on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. If you go to our Pay Nation page on LinkedIn, we post a lot of articles, newsletters, you can subscribe to our newsletter.

We put out something twice a month. A lot of good information about B2B and the trends in B2B. If you type the Pay Nation into Google come up. We're very prominent in all spaces and.

Freddy D: 00:32:55

I'm sure you offer a free consultation assessment of the organization. Right.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:32:59

The client is interested in engaging our services.

We typically get on a discovery delivery call, find out what their needs and wants are, what their North Star is, and then try to get close to that North Star as possible. Sometimes we don't have a direct solution, but we can find a workaround.

Sometimes the solution that they currently have is better than what we can offer. And we tell the client, stay where you're at, things change, give us a call.

We don't have a problem walking away from business if current solution is better than what we have to offer at that point.

Freddy D: 00:33:27

And that's an important sales tip because you just created a super fan out of that customer for being authentic.

Even though your solution is not viable for them, they may know somebody else that could utilize your services and they're going to recommend your services because of the way you handled it. But I had that happen to me many times where I'd say, I don't have the right solution.

You should really look at that product for what you're specifically looking at. And they were like wow. And I would get a referral from them or an introduction to somebody else two, three, four months down the road.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:34:01

Absolutely. I can't agree more.

Freddy D: 00:34:04

So we'll make sure all that's in the show, notes Perryn. And it's been a great conversation, great insights for our listeners, and we could go on this for a couple hours, I'm sure.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:34:14

Yeah, we could probably do a whole bunch of shows like this.

Freddy D: 00:34:17

So we'll definitely look forward to having you on the show and continue the conversation.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:34:21

Sounds good.

Freddy D: 00:34:21

Thanks for your time.

Perryn Holtrop: 00:34:22

Thanks for having me.

Freddy D: 00:34:27

Hey super fans. Superstar Freddie D. Here.

Before we wrap, here's your three A playbook power move to attract ideal clients, turn them into advocates, and accelerate your business success. Here's the top insight from today's episode. You don't win in business by saving pennies.

You win by eliminating inefficiencies that bleed dollars and bury potential. So here's your business growth action step.

Audit your current payment process and identify one manual outdated step you can automate this week to free up time and boost profitability.

If today's conversation sparked an idea for you, or you know of a fellow business leader who could benefit, share it with them and grab the full breakdown in the show notes. Let's accelerate together and start creating business superfans who champion your brand.

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