Mastering Modern Marketing: From Algorithms to Advocacy with Melih Oztalay
Episode 126 Mastering Modern Marketing: From Algorithms to Advocacy with Melih Oztalay Frederick Dudek (Freddy D) Copyright 2025 Prosperous Ventures, LLC
Melih Oztalay joins us to dive deep into the shifting tides of digital marketing in this episode. With over 35 years in the game, Melih shares his insights on how AI and behavioral data are changing the marketing landscape, challenging the traditional approaches that many businesses still cling to.
We explore his innovative 4A’s framework, which is all about aligning marketing with sales to drive growth and measurable results. This conversation is packed with practical advice for business leaders looking to adapt and thrive in a rapidly evolving environment. Grab a seat as we get into the nitty-gritty of how to leverage technology and strategy for real-world success.
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Melih Oztalay's appearance on the podcast is a deep exploration of what it takes to succeed in the modern digital marketing arena. With a career spanning over 35 years, Melih brings a wealth of knowledge that covers the evolution of marketing from traditional practices to the dynamic digital strategies we see today. He shares his journey from logistics to founding Smart Finds Marketing, illustrating how his diverse background shapes his approach to marketing.
One of the standout themes of our conversation is the impact of AI and behavioral data on marketing strategies. Melih discusses his 4A's framework—Awareness, Attraction, Action, and Advocacy—offering listeners a comprehensive guide to navigating the complex digital landscape. He emphasizes the importance of not just executing tasks but rather implementing strategic, data-driven decisions that lead to measurable results. This framework is not just theory; it’s backed by years of experience and successful case studies that Melih references throughout our chat.
As the discussion unfolds, we reflect on the importance of client relationships in today’s business environment. Melih's philosophy of treating clients as partners rather than just customers is a refreshing take that resonates throughout the episode. He provides actionable insights that listeners can apply immediately, such as the necessity of regular communication and proactive engagement with clients. By the end of the episode, listeners will walk away with the understanding that successful marketing today is about building genuine relationships and leveraging technology to deliver real value to clients.
Takeaways:
- Melih Oztalay emphasizes the importance of adapting marketing strategies to leverage AI and behavioral data effectively for measurable growth.
- Drawing on decades of experience, Melih outlines his signature 4A's framework to navigate the evolving digital marketing landscape.
- In our chat, we highlight how traditional marketing approaches can hinder businesses from achieving their full potential in today’s tech-driven world.
- Melih shares insights on the necessity of collaboration between marketing agencies and clients for better results, challenging the norm of one-sided service.
- The conversation dives deep into how the digital world has transformed marketing, stressing the significance of strategic planning and data analysis.
- Melih reflects on the shift from face-to-face networking to digital connections post-pandemic, emphasizing the need for adaptability in business practices.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Smart Finds Marketing
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Hey super fans.
Speaker A:Superstar Freddie D. Here in this episode 126, we're joined by Mele Ostilay, a digital marketing visionary, business strategist and technology futurist with over 35 years of experience leading businesses through the ever evolving digital landscape.
Speaker A:As CEO of Smart Finds Marketing, Meilee has advised Fortune 500 giants and nimble startups alike, helping them al marketing with sales, leveraging emerging technologies and unlocking measurable growth, we dive into the future of marketing.
Speaker A:Beyond the buzzwords, how AI and behavioral data are reshaping strategy and Mei Li's signature 4A's framework for digital success.
Speaker A:This is a conversation packed with insights that challenge traditional thinking and empower business leaders to adapt, differentiating and thrive.
Speaker A:Get ready for a bold forward think discussion that blends real world execution with strategic insight.
Speaker A:Welcome Mei L to the Business Super Fans podcast show.
Speaker A:We're super excited to have you on the show today.
Speaker A:You and I, before we started recording, talk about our remote town Detroit background and the things that have happened over the years in Detroit.
Speaker A:So excited to have you on the show and let's dive in.
Speaker B:Glad to be on the show, Freddie.
Speaker B:And yeah, I was surprised that you're from the Detroit metro area as well.
Speaker B:You got some solid background.
Speaker B:Yeah, we got all kinds of fun stories to talk about in the Detroit metro area.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, it's changed significantly since I grew up there and you've been there and I've left in the 80s I would come visit family because I still have family there.
Speaker A:But over the years I saw it start to transform and stuff like that.
Speaker A:So it's not the same place, it's not the same Detroit anymore.
Speaker B:You left as I was coming into the area.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So it's changed a lot, that's for sure.
Speaker A:So let's get into the beginning.
Speaker A:What led you to Detroit and what led you to start your marketing agency, which is Smart Fine marketing.
Speaker B:Yeah, my background's complicated, but I am actually an overseas brat and so when it was time to go to college, I had no idea where in the United States I wanted to go.
Speaker B:Had wasn't even really that familiar with the US at the time and a buddy of mine was in Michigan and one thing led to another and I ended up in Michigan for that reason.
Speaker B:But after college I started working in logistics management for a little while, especially during the later 80s.
Speaker B:But at the same time it was evident, hey listen, you know what, I'm really good on the marketing side, the customer service side, the sales side and so on and so forth.
Speaker B: , Armstrong Communications in: Speaker B:But from there I started the Internet Group in 94.
Speaker B: % digital in: Speaker B:We have a lot of knowledge, we have a lot of history when it comes to marketing, sales, advertising, branding, public relations, take your pick.
Speaker B:And as you can imagine the time frame from 94 in particular in terms of digital to where we are today, it's been a lot of fun going through all these changes, that's for sure.
Speaker A:Oh sure, like we were talking before we started recording.
Speaker A: applications guy in November: Speaker A:When I left Detroit and started working in Chicago, I got the job.
Speaker A:But bad news, you got to move to Chicago.
Speaker A:Was a fun rider as an applications guy for five years.
Speaker A:And then the company was looking for salespeople and so I raised my hand and I got picked and I was very fortunate.
Speaker A:I got six months of really high end sales training, Wilson Learning, Vanguard, Dale Carnegie, a multitude of different things and I never looked back from there.
Speaker A:So it's been a fun, fun ride.
Speaker A:I tell people if you watch that mad men, the 50s, marketing, that was what the computer industry was in the early 80s and early 90s.
Speaker A:It was just a while back.
Speaker B:I mean it's interesting, you went through Dale Carnegie, I went through Stephen Cully back in those days.
Speaker B:That's what, you know, everybody had their own paths in terms of what they were doing.
Speaker B:But yeah, the 80s was interesting because I remember when I got to college, first thing on the market was the IBM PC.
Speaker B:And I remember logging into DOS program and run software back in those days as well.
Speaker B:But then it evolved, right?
Speaker B:We got into Windows, we got into various types of PC platforms that were on the market.
Speaker B:And obviously with the Internet, you know, Unix took off in a big way, certainly Linux on top of that.
Speaker B:But we were running Sun Microsystem servers in the ISP division that we had in 94.
Speaker B:And like I said, I love the 90s in terms of the Internet because like the Wild west, we had no rules.
Speaker B:I mean like today, right, Nowadays it's more of the Internet has become a strategic business tool and is the number one communications method for the whole world for that matter.
Speaker B:But back in those days, I mean there was a wild west.
Speaker B:It was a wild west.
Speaker A:Yeah, I bought when I got into sales in 85, that's when I got to training in 86 was my first year in sales, I bought a Mac in 85, and I used a relational database called Helix.
Speaker A:And I wrote my own CRM because I used to have a daytimer.
Speaker A:And I would carry that Mac.
Speaker A:I got the backpack for it and everything else.
Speaker A:And I would carry that to when I was selling into companies.
Speaker A:And I would bring up Excel, because Excel was on a Mac initially back in the day, and I would had a whole ROI document.
Speaker A:I still have it printed out.
Speaker A:I saved it.
Speaker A:What I had is rudimentary, but it worked.
Speaker A:And I would sit there and say, okay, Meilee, let's go through all your costs and stuff, and et cetera.
Speaker A:And basically it was you were creating your own ROI because I emotionally involved you into it.
Speaker A:And then basically you were selling yourself as you're putting together the roi.
Speaker A:And it was done.
Speaker A:The sale was done, because you said, yeah, this makes sense.
Speaker A:And you put it together, not me.
Speaker B:When we reflect back on where we were and where we are today, especially when you start counting in decades, it turns into a different story.
Speaker B:But I remember as you're talking, something that came to my mind.
Speaker B:There was a radio show down in Tampa that had invited me to be on their show.
Speaker B:I came in remotely through the Internet, and the host introduced me as an expert.
Speaker B:And as soon as he was done introducing me, I had to stop him.
Speaker B:I said, listen, just I want to clear something up.
Speaker B:I'm not a digital marketing expert.
Speaker B:And of course, Rihanna radio.
Speaker B:And I'm kind of pushing back against him on something that he thought was flattering to me.
Speaker B:And I said, yeah, let's just be clear.
Speaker B:There is no version of somebody being an expert in the technology world, in the digital world.
Speaker B:In marketing nowadays, you can't be an expert.
Speaker B:What you can do, though, is that you can take knowledge and you can take your experience and you can figure out how to apply it using the most current tools that are available.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, it's not about taking your knowledge and experience and then just run with it.
Speaker B:No, the idea is take a look at what the tools are in the marketplace today.
Speaker B:So what do we have in the last three years?
Speaker B:Artificial intelligence.
Speaker B:And we have a lot of it.
Speaker B:And so how do we take our knowledge and experience from decades of business, of marketing and advertising, everything else, and use AI to help a current client become successful?
Speaker B:How do they get an ROI on the investment that they're putting into the company in marketing and advertising, branding, et cetera?
Speaker B:And I think that's what we're able to bring to the table at Our age, we're able to take all that knowledge and experience and figure out how to do it.
Speaker B:But this idea that anybody is an expert.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, I just don't believe it.
Speaker A:Well, I would agree, because things are exponentially changing.
Speaker A:That's the reality of it.
Speaker A:In the 80s, we had a softer release a year.
Speaker A:Was that the innovation back then?
Speaker A:Then it became twice a year, then it became every quarter.
Speaker A:We had a soft release, but this is all pre Internet days.
Speaker A:So then you had to ship the.
Speaker B:Stuff to the CDs and whatnot.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Or the discs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We had the three and a half inch disc that came out.
Speaker A:Discs or tapes because I was selling using On Deck Digital Equipment Corp.
Speaker A:So they had the reels that put all that stuff on today.
Speaker A:Things have changed so exponentially because you can just make a couple fixes to the code and drop it.
Speaker A:And it's all online now.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:And it fixed.
Speaker A:It found a boo boo today, fixed tomorrow.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yep, exactly.
Speaker B:And more importantly, the update just gets picked up by wherever your customers are or whoever is subscribed to your app, whatever that looks like.
Speaker B:And within 24 hours, you know, it's staggered based.
Speaker B:So not everybody's going to flood the server at the same time.
Speaker B:But nonetheless, yes, in 24 hours, everybody's got the update that they're looking for.
Speaker B:It's an interesting world that we're in.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:So let's get into melee.
Speaker A:The intricacies of what differentiates your marketing organization versus some of these new ones that especially pop up all of a sudden tomorrow they got a sign that says they're a marketing agency where you bring decades of experience in working with some really large brands.
Speaker A:So let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I have an interesting story to introduce as an answer to your question.
Speaker B:And this goes back 15 years.
Speaker B:We were working with a dealership group out of Phoenix, Arizona in Southern California.
Speaker B:And after about three months of managing their advertising, as well as some of the local marketing that we were doing, I said, hey, let's go meet up with all the general managers and talk to them and see what's going on.
Speaker B:And honestly, every meeting we went into with the general manager would ask, why are we meeting?
Speaker B:We're your marketing agency.
Speaker B:You're sending us money, we're running the ads, we're doing this, we're doing that.
Speaker B:And here are some reports.
Speaker B:And what we want to do is collaborate with you.
Speaker B:We're going to share with you what we found, you're going to share with us what the results are in house.
Speaker B:And I need you to tell me what it is that you want us to concentrate on in the upcoming 30 days or 60 days or whatever.
Speaker B:And again, same situation.
Speaker B:Every single GM would look at me and say, well, nobody's ever done this with us.
Speaker B:Nobody's ever done this with us before.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:I said, well, what are you guys doing?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:We get these pretty reports.
Speaker B:I look at them, I ditch them.
Speaker A:Surprise.
Speaker B:Obviously I knew who they used to use, though.
Speaker B:It's not like I didn't know, but it allowed me to answer, to share something with them because they were all my age range.
Speaker B:I said, at what point in history was your printer your ad agency?
Speaker B:And all of a sudden, light bulbs are going off.
Speaker B:Listen, you've been hiring your printer to be your ad agency.
Speaker B:And I'm using the old world 40 years ago to try and provide perspective.
Speaker B:And that is the same thing that we're experiencing today.
Speaker B:You have every time Vic and Harry putting up a shingle that says, I'm doing marketing.
Speaker B:Well, first of all, what part of marketing are you doing?
Speaker B:Because we have a very broad range of what gets thrown into that marketing category.
Speaker B:And the other thing is, in most of these cases is a company providing a service, executing tasks.
Speaker B:That's not marketing.
Speaker B:That's just somebody doing work for you.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Marketing is about research, strategy and planning.
Speaker B:Marketing is about a process.
Speaker B:It's a process that is a cycle.
Speaker B:It has activities, the activities have tasks.
Speaker B:More importantly, every task and every activity is measured.
Speaker B:And when you come around full circle, you're taking all this data every 30 to 45 days and you're crunching it from multiple different data points and trying to understand what's working, what's not working.
Speaker B:Now, marketing, that being marketing, that's a whole different ballgame from somebody who's just running a service and executing tasks for you, which is just work.
Speaker B:Well, now you end up having the blind leading the blind, right?
Speaker B:The person providing the service and the task doesn't really understand marketing as a strategy, doesn't understand marketing on a high level in terms of measuring it.
Speaker B:And the client, who doesn't have any clue on the digital world and the tools that are available and what they can do and how they can do, they end up getting caught up in the middle of everything.
Speaker B:But it's one of these scenarios where the client is saying, oh, this guy's doing these things, right?
Speaker B:And he happens to be saying the same thing or writes the exact same verbiage on his website and the guy's doing it for 100 bucks.
Speaker B:Let's say, okay, I'm just throwing out a number and the client's saying, well, geez, if this guy can do it for 100 bucks, I'm going to give it to him.
Speaker B:And guess what?
Speaker B:The $100 is risk free, theoretically to most businesses.
Speaker B:They're willing to spend a hundred bucks and see what happens, if it works, if it doesn't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And they move on.
Speaker A:Only 100 bucks, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, that's the world that we're living in is you have all these service providers out there taking care of a sliver of what the overall program should be, whereas a marketing agency like ourselves is walking in the door with a much broader view, basing everything on a strategy and building the entire program around that strategy and understanding how to measure it.
Speaker B:And so like in our case, we meet with our clients once a week because there's a lot of things going on in one week.
Speaker B:Believe it or not, today it's a very dynamic world.
Speaker B:And so you're going to meet for an hour with the client and you're going to pick the specific topics because obviously you can't cover everything in that one day or that one hour.
Speaker B:But you want to cover the high points of whatever the major activities were from the previous week.
Speaker B:What are some of the long term things that are going on.
Speaker B:And what you might do is have quarterly meetings to look at a much broader picture of what's going on.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But the week to week is more operational, so to speak.
Speaker B:They tell us what's going on, we tell them what's going on.
Speaker B:You're just going bantering back and forth on the results and trying to figure out, well, what's the next thing we need to do to improve the results.
Speaker B:So right now you're going to run the AB test.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You might run ABC tests.
Speaker B:You're going to change visuals, you're going to change layouts, colors, whatever the case looks like, and understand what the call to actions are and try to move these things forward.
Speaker B:When you start looking at the broader picture of what a marketing agency does compared to these service providers, there's a huge difference.
Speaker B:And obviously there's a huge difference in price too.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But it's much higher with the marketing agency, which is why, like in our case, we're not really small business oriented.
Speaker B:Our clients are generated $10 million in gross revenue annually or greater.
Speaker B:In most cases they're much larger than that.
Speaker B:And so we take an entirely different approach compared to these service providers.
Speaker B:So anyway, like I said, it always stuck in my mind when I gave that example.
Speaker B:At what point in history was your printer agency?
Speaker B:Well, it makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's an excellent example.
Speaker A:But the other thing that I want to emphasize here, Bailey, is that you're really working with the company on a growth strategy.
Speaker A:What's their objectives?
Speaker A:What's their long term game plan?
Speaker A:And that was one of my advantages when I was selling in the software space, especially in the tool and die area, mold makers and all those kind of guys.
Speaker A:There'd be two, three, four products that were in the same market space.
Speaker A:They all did the job.
Speaker A:And I would come right out front and say, hey, Bailey, there's three other products in the industry.
Speaker A:They wouldn't be in business if they wouldn't do the work.
Speaker A:So we all agree that they can do the job.
Speaker A:Let's talk about where do you see yourself in two years?
Speaker A:Where do you see yourself in three years?
Speaker A:What are the challenges that you're doing?
Speaker A:And so I changed the conversation out of the technology.
Speaker A:The technology was just a vehicle, right?
Speaker A:It was, where do you want to see your business go in a couple years?
Speaker A:And what are the challenges that are preventing you?
Speaker A:Oh, you're scrapping metal because the machine gouged it.
Speaker A:Okay, how much did that piece of metal was?
Speaker A:Oh, 30,000 bucks.
Speaker A:How many times you do that a year?
Speaker A:Oh, four times.
Speaker A:Okay, there's 100 grand right there.
Speaker A:So, you know, we started looking at that and how often does that happen and all these things.
Speaker A:And the whole conversation was a business growth conversation.
Speaker A:That my tool just happened to be the tool that would help them closer to get to their goals.
Speaker A:And the competition had no chance because that was completely different conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And you, there's another point in all of this, and I'll use another example with a different client.
Speaker B: t was introduced in August of: Speaker B:Very interesting enough.
Speaker B:Ninety days later, I had a client, a large client come to us and say, listen, you know what, we're not going to play this Google game anymore.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, what do you plan on doing?
Speaker B:Well, we're just going to continue with what we're doing.
Speaker B:We have our website, we have our sales team.
Speaker B:We're not too interested in continuing this.
Speaker B:And they said, listen, Melee, you're doing a great job.
Speaker B:We just don't want to play Google's game.
Speaker B:So there was two different outgrowths out of that situation.
Speaker B:The first one is a direct one to the client.
Speaker B:What do you plan on doing with your competition?
Speaker B:And that raised an interesting question.
Speaker B:Yeah, oops.
Speaker B:Because I said, listen, you may want to get off the Google training, I understand that.
Speaker B:And you're having difficulty managing a budget that never ends.
Speaker B:You're having difficulty managing the fact that some of your budget, after every one of these changes you lose ground and then you have to get back, figure out how to get back again, and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:I understand all that.
Speaker B:But if you get off the Google train and your competition continues to stay on the Google train, what do you plan on doing in whatever, three, six months, 12 months later when you decide to get on the train again?
Speaker B:Do you have any idea how far back you're going to be at that point?
Speaker B:Do you have any idea how much money you need to catch up to your competitors who decided to stay on the train?
Speaker B:As in, there's no way that you would have the level of budget needed to catch up.
Speaker B:You're going to always end up being behind.
Speaker B:And so that was one interesting scenario as far as what's going on with this technology or these tools, like you were just saying, in order to help facilitate growth.
Speaker B:But then there's the other side of the equation, which is the client raised an interesting point and it got me thinking.
Speaker B:How do we generate the growth without depending on Google?
Speaker B:Let's just take Google out of the equation and what other avenues do we have?
Speaker B:And by that time, as you can imagine, Deep matured enough that social media was a more significant force to generate leads for the client than relying strictly on Google.
Speaker B:And so how about we make Google secondary and we make the social media communities primary in our marketing efforts and work our way through that.
Speaker B: n entire strategy together in: Speaker B:Just a project dropped in our lap, literally.
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, this is perfect for this new strategy.
Speaker B:And we ran with that strategy and it was mind bogglingly successful because the social communities, as long as you're consistent, and this is the one thing I didn't expect, has a compounding effect, not just an exponential effect, it has a compounding effect in terms of the response that you're going to be getting.
Speaker B:All you have to do is maintain consistency, maintain your frequency, maintain the amount of content, be engaged and active, and without making change in volume, that amount of Work turns into something much greater.
Speaker B:And month over month, you're going to see a huge response.
Speaker B:And that certainly proved the point that we don't need to worry about Google.
Speaker B:The fact that clients still needs to worry about their competitors.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But you probably transform that customer into a superfan because of the fact that you really changed their marketing model of engaging with all their stakeholders.
Speaker B:And it was a huge.
Speaker B:It was a resounding success.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:But again, going back to what we were talking about earlier, this is the perfect situation of being able to use knowledge and experience with current tools to come up with something that's going to generate the results that the client's looking for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And like you pointed out, it's about growth.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And before we start recording, you had mentioned the fact that you've never had a salesforce for your marketing agency.
Speaker A:So let's expand upon that because I think for some people, that's going to be hard for them to understand.
Speaker A:But there's a.
Speaker A:There's a reason why I'm bringing that up, because there is an approach that you don't need a salesforce if you do things a certain way.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you and I had a good conversation on that before we started recording.
Speaker B:And I learned very early on of taking care of your clients.
Speaker B:That's number one, first and foremost, especially in the beginning.
Speaker B:And look, if I go back 30 years, I'm 30 years younger.
Speaker B:I got a lot more energy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's a lot of things going on.
Speaker B:It's a different world out there at.
Speaker B:When you're young.
Speaker B:And so I was at a event with a bunch of people.
Speaker B:And this goes back to 94.
Speaker B:This is when we first started the Internet group.
Speaker B:And back in those days, it was being an isp.
Speaker B:So all you're doing is providing connectivity, services.
Speaker B:We're far.
Speaker B:We're not close enough to website development, website marketing, web marketing, none of that existed.
Speaker B:So it's just being.
Speaker B:Talking about being an isp.
Speaker B:And somebody has asked me, well, what'd you guys do?
Speaker B:You started this up.
Speaker B:Are you selling this?
Speaker B:I said, right now we just run some basic ads and we're generating some sales.
Speaker B:And one of the things it was suggested to me said, hey, have you talked to the synagogues in southeast Michigan?
Speaker B:And I said, no.
Speaker B:And the suggestion was, open up the Jewish news, follow the rabbis, meet with them and provide them free services.
Speaker B:I said, okay, fine.
Speaker B:And I did that.
Speaker B:And I was able to develop relationships with everybody.
Speaker B:But I Think the example that I want to go to as far as why you don't need SaaS people, is I took care of these synagogues and their basic service that we provided as though they were a paying customer.
Speaker B:And back in 94, 95, 96, back in those days, trying to make an Internet connection was a nightmare.
Speaker B:It was absolutely crazy.
Speaker B:And as you can imagine, people were constantly having trouble with something.
Speaker B:I don't care about PC.
Speaker B:I didn't care if it was a Mac.
Speaker B:There was always some connectivity wrong.
Speaker B:But I made sure that I was there within whatever, one, two hours.
Speaker B:After all, they're all local, trying to figure out how to resolve the problem.
Speaker B:And I will tell you, that process was a great example of how it went like wildfire within southeast Michigan.
Speaker B:All of a sudden, we were prominent in a variety of projects, particularly in the Jewish community within southeast Michigan.
Speaker B:Now, I don't care if it was developing websites for temples that never had it or shuls that needed to be interconnected.
Speaker B:We had a huge project around that or large corporations within southeast Michigan that became our clients, including the Oakland Press.
Speaker B:We had gardening industry, BASF chemicals down in Wyandotte, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker B:But that entire experience, I think, is exactly what you and I are talking about.
Speaker B:Meaning that you don't need a salesforce based on investing your time to take care of your clients.
Speaker B:If you say you're going to do something, make sure you do it.
Speaker B:If you can't do it, make sure you get back to them and tell them what's going on.
Speaker B:Don't leave people hanging.
Speaker B:All the, what I would say is Business 101 Communications with your clients.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But people overlook that basic thing.
Speaker A:And they do, unfortunately.
Speaker A:It's amazing because I've had clients and you probably know these.
Speaker A:Temple Emanuel in Oak Park.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was my client for 10 years.
Speaker A:I was just handling their web stuff.
Speaker A:That was it.
Speaker A:I was in a group.
Speaker A:I got recommended and said I can fix all this stuff.
Speaker A:And I didn't charge him a ton of money, but I had him as a customer.
Speaker A:And the point I'm trying to bring out for 10 years, that's a long time.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I've.
Speaker A:I just had a guy that's retired out of Chicago who's a real estate lawyer.
Speaker A:I did all his kind of stuff for 15 years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the bottom line is create super fans by taking care of your customers.
Speaker A:Just like you mentioned there Melee is, you went above and beyond.
Speaker A:You made sure that they were taken care of.
Speaker A:And if you take care of enough people and make sure that their aspirations are met.
Speaker A:You don't have to worry about yourself.
Speaker A:It comes back full circle 10 times, and that's how you create those super fans.
Speaker A:And those super fans are really my fancy way of calling brand advocates, but I think business superfans are the name.
Speaker B:No, I think you're on target when with regards to calling them super fans, I think you're right.
Speaker B:That's exactly right.
Speaker A:And you can't buy that kind of PR because now it says, okay, John says, I'm looking for somebody to help.
Speaker A:Oh, you know what?
Speaker A:I know a guy, his name is Mei Lee.
Speaker A:He's got a great agency, totally recommend him.
Speaker A:Boom, that transaction's done.
Speaker A:There's no price shopping.
Speaker A:There's no nothing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:They go right there.
Speaker A:I say this probably the 50th time, but my fastest sale was a $60,000 sale because my Superfan Mold shop in Rockford, Illinois, had told this other mold shop that was doing overflow work for them they need to get the system.
Speaker A:The guy calls me up and says, Jack, which was his real name, says, I need to buy this stuff.
Speaker A:What's it going to cost me?
Speaker A:How fast can you get it here?
Speaker A:And that was basically the conversation.
Speaker A:We ended up thinking we had to go and drove out there, bringing all our computer stuff with us to go do a demo.
Speaker A:And he goes, I don't need to see any of that stuff.
Speaker A:And So I spent 30 minutes pulling out the order firm on my Mac.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And then using his fax machine to fax at the headquarters for a $60,000 sale.
Speaker B:And listen, referrals, ultimately, in what I call referral partners, super fans, however you want to term it.
Speaker B:That is the way that we built our business up until the pandemic.
Speaker B:And I can tell you the story after what happened afterwards.
Speaker B:But up until the pandemic, we were able to run the company without a sales team.
Speaker B:Because of this, we have a 2 billion.
Speaker B:Actually, they're larger than that, but they're at least $2 billion client of ours in the Detroit metro area.
Speaker B:They've been with us for 12 years.
Speaker B:We do what we say we're going to do.
Speaker B:We manage and maintain our communications.
Speaker B:We make sure that they don't have a problem, or if they do, we better solve it in the last five minutes, let it drag out, and constantly stay in touch with the client if there is an issue.
Speaker B:But, yeah, this is the way that you manage and build your business without a sales team.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Like I said, My brother got remarried and so we were there a couple weeks ago and I had a customer that I've taken care of for 10 years, another 10 year one, and he had an issue that popped up.
Speaker A:I got it fixed via my phone.
Speaker A:I got it taken care of for him.
Speaker A:And he was shocked.
Speaker A:He goes, you actually took time.
Speaker A:You're on vacation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Attending your brother's wedding.
Speaker A:Mike, I said, you're my buddy, I gotta take care of you.
Speaker A:That is what differentiates you from others, because that's how you build and maintain customers like you and I have had for longer than five minutes.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And in response to that, here's what I will tell you what happens after the pandemic.
Speaker B:Prior to the pandemic, everybody was used to taking each other out to breakfast or lunches or happy hours or dinners or local business networking events, conferences, seminars, take your pick, right?
Speaker B:Everybody's face to face and they're developing that relationship.
Speaker B:One thing that happened with the pandemic, though, is when that all went away.
Speaker B:Interesting enough, our long term referral partners were no longer in a position to refer business to us.
Speaker B:And last week was the first time you will find a press release about us hiring a chief sales officer.
Speaker B:That's the first time in our entire history that we've had to do that.
Speaker A:It's a different game.
Speaker B:It's a different game.
Speaker B:And again, changing with the times, it is a different game right now.
Speaker B:And whether it's direct competition, whether it's indirect competition or perceived competition doesn't make a difference.
Speaker B:You have to figure out how are you going to keep your, your name out there.
Speaker B:And so a pandemic had its own ifs, ands and buts.
Speaker B:We're adjusting to it.
Speaker B:But this is where I talk a lot about my forays, forays of change.
Speaker B:So you have to anticipate change, you have to accept change, which my earlier example client who decided to get off the Google train was not willing to accept the changes.
Speaker B:But once you can get past that issue, then you have to adapt to the changes.
Speaker B:Whatever processes are internal, whether it's policy changes or operational changes you're going to make.
Speaker B:And last but not least, you have to adopt the changes.
Speaker B:And so you're going through these four steps every time there's something major hits the market, right?
Speaker B:So in this case, it was the pandemic.
Speaker B:It was worldwide.
Speaker B:As we got out of the pandemic, you wake up, it's kind of those disaster movies.
Speaker B:People are coming out of their bunkers and looking around.
Speaker A:It's A different world into a different world.
Speaker B:In our case, it's like, okay, well, guess what?
Speaker B:Let's see if we can do this without salespeople.
Speaker B:And the answer is, it doesn't work in the world that we're in.
Speaker B:We finally needed salespeople.
Speaker B:And last week, if you look up our press release on smart finance marketing, you'll notice that we hired a CSO and we're adapting to the new world, basically.
Speaker A:But you have to.
Speaker A:It's important.
Speaker A:The thing is that you really want to leverage also the existing customer base.
Speaker A:Because one of the things that I've done is all my customers, I'd send them birthday cards every year through the mail, old school.
Speaker A:And they would message me, text me, thank you so much for remembering.
Speaker A:I got it on an automated system, but that doesn't matter.
Speaker A:It's a fact that it took place is the important aspect.
Speaker A:I'd recognize them on a lot of things.
Speaker A:One of the quotes in my book that I wrote is, people crawl through broken glass for appreciation and recognition.
Speaker B:Okay, you're right.
Speaker A:And we don't give it enough.
Speaker A:And we really need to our teams.
Speaker A:We need to recognize our teams.
Speaker A:We need to recognize our customers, our partners, our suppliers, our distributors.
Speaker A:You really need to look at how can we elevate the whole ecosystem to become a sales machine.
Speaker B:I'll give you a very simple example.
Speaker B:I was at a bakery the other day, and I was standing in line.
Speaker B:It was a long line.
Speaker B:When I got up and I was being serviced, it was the same person servicing all these people.
Speaker B:I looked at them and I paused and I said, hi, how are you doing?
Speaker B:Nice and simple.
Speaker B:Nothing too wild and crazy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And he took my order.
Speaker B:He's a little bit older, gentleman.
Speaker B:It's not like this was a young guy.
Speaker B:And so when I stepped aside for the person behind me to place their order, he looked at me and he goes about.
Speaker B:One person asked me that question all day, how are you doing?
Speaker A:You brought up another point of mine, which is one of the things I talk about a lot is the little things are really the big things.
Speaker A:What you just did there was a very little thing, but to that individual, it was a huge thing.
Speaker B:And people it also a moment to take a breath.
Speaker A:You're absolutely correct.
Speaker A:But you just transform that person's day.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Next time I'm in there.
Speaker A:But it became a big thing for that individual.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And I think we lose sight of that because we get caught up into everyday stuff, and it's okay to turn around and say, hey, really appreciate that extra effort you put on on that project, it's gonna go, wow, somebody actually noticed, which is what you did.
Speaker B:It's kind of an interesting.
Speaker B:I have all kinds of little stories like that.
Speaker B:I'll give you another one that I think will be fun.
Speaker B:I used to write for Cranes Detroit.
Speaker B:I'm sure you're familiar with that publication.
Speaker B:And so one of my articles I wrote, which is still up there, it goes back, gosh, maybe 10 years.
Speaker B:It's Friday, end of day, 5, 30, 6 o'.
Speaker B:Clock.
Speaker B:It's been a long week, let alone a long day.
Speaker B:I'm going up Woodward Stop at a sub shop, and I walk in and there's nobody in the stop shop.
Speaker B:It was empty.
Speaker B:And it was just that time of the day, right?
Speaker B:Everybody's probably going home, like getting dinner or whatever.
Speaker B:And obviously my face was.
Speaker B:Showed a lot of stress because the.
Speaker B:The young kid, I'm gonna say young kid because he was probably about 19ish, maybe 18.
Speaker B:Some of that neighborhood looked at me and goes, long day.
Speaker B:I said, yeah, long week and a long day.
Speaker B:And I'll just make this short for purposes of this conversation.
Speaker B:He said, what do you do?
Speaker B:I said, well, I have a company.
Speaker B:We do Internet marketing is the way I presented it to him.
Speaker B:He looks at me and he's got this puzzled face going on.
Speaker B:In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, what part of Internet marketing did he not understand?
Speaker B:And as we're going through the conversation, he ends up looking at me and he said, had you said marketing to me, I would have known exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker B:But when you preface it with Internet, it sounded like there's something else that you're doing.
Speaker B: er words, kids that were born: Speaker B:They grew up in the digital world, right.
Speaker B:My two sons is 36 and 32, but when I watch them on an.
Speaker A:Iphone, it's like they're flying through it.
Speaker B:They're flying.
Speaker A:My daughter's 25.
Speaker B:Take my big thick fingers.
Speaker B:Lots of fun stories as time goes on.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Well, Melee, it's been a great conversation as we come closer to the end of the show here.
Speaker A:How can people find you?
Speaker B:First of all, what I usually do when I'm on shows like this, I say, go to LinkedIn and look me up.
Speaker B:Connect with me, send me a message.
Speaker B:A couple of things.
Speaker B:First of all, if you look for melee ostely on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:I guarantee you I'm the only one there.
Speaker B:And the other thing is I have 22,000 really close friends on LinkedIn, so I always tell people, please tag me.
Speaker B:We don't even want to be connected.
Speaker B:But you're able to tag me on your post.
Speaker B:I'm happy to react.
Speaker B:I'm happy to place a solid comment with hashtags that'll help expand your reach.
Speaker B:By all means.
Speaker B:That's another way to kind of stay in touch, connect, meet new people.
Speaker B:Outside of that, our company website is smart finds marketing.com look us up.
Speaker B:We're a full service 360 marketing agency.
Speaker B:There's very little we don't do.
Speaker A:We'll make sure that's in the show.
Speaker A:Notes and Melee has been a great conversation, great insights and great, great connecting with a fellow Motowner.
Speaker A:And we definitely look forward to having you on the show again because you and I could talk about this stuff for probably days.
Speaker B:Oh I guarantee.
Speaker B:Tell me about it.
Speaker A:So thank you again for your time and looking forward to having you down the road again.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker A:Before we wrap, here's your quick debrief.
Speaker A:Each episode in this nine part series zooms in on one powerful pillar of my Superfans Framework.
Speaker A:Nine proven steps designed to turn your business from a flicker of potential to and to unstoppable, scalable prosperity.
Speaker A:The pillars are S Strategize U Unite P Propel E Elevate R Rally F Finance A Automate N Nurture S Sustain.
Speaker A:Each week we spotlight one pillar, extract a game changing insight from today's guest and and close with your Superfan Success Spark, a bold 24 hour action you can take immediately to move your business forward.
Speaker A:Follow along through all nine episodes, collect each spark and you'll have a step by step playbook to create superfans who fuel rave reviews, rocking referrals and rising revenue.
Speaker A:Then we reset the cycle with nine brand new sparks, fresh guests and even more strategies to help you scale with clarity, purpose and unstoppable momentum.
Speaker A:Ready?
Speaker A:Here's this episode Spark.
Speaker A:Here's the Superfans success spark with the Pillar r Rally Engineer review and referral loops that amplify reputation and reach.
Speaker A:So here's the top insight we built our business without a sales team by taking care of our clients so well they couldn't help but refer us.
Speaker A:Melee Osthele So here's the action to do in the next 24 hours.
Speaker A:Reach out to one happy client and ask for a referral.
Speaker A:Or better yet, a short testimonial Keep it simple and personal.
Speaker C:We hope you took away some useful knowledge from today's episode of the Business Super Fans Podcast.
Speaker C:The path to success relies on taking action, so go over to businesssuperfans.com and get your hands on the book.
Speaker C:If you haven't already, join the accelerator community and take that first step in generating a team of passionate supporters for your business.
Speaker C:Join us on the next episode as we continue guiding you on your journey to achieve flourishing success in business.
