How to Build a Reputation That Turns Referrals into Revenue — Elizabeth (Liz) Harr Reveals

Freddy D: 00:03:03

Hey Superfans superstar Freddie D. Here in this episode 127, we're joined by Elizabeth Har, a powerhouse in brand management and growth strategies for professional service firms. As a Managing partner at Hinge, she leads the client delivery team, helping businesses tackle their most pressing marketing and branding challenges.

Before joining Hinge, Elizabeth co founded a Microsoft solutions provider, building it into a respected leader in CRM enterprise.

With over two decades of experience, a Master's in International Economics from Columbia University and a portfolio of influential books and research through the Hinge Research Institute, she's recognized as a visible expert and a sought after speaker across the nation. Get ready for a conversation packed with insights on strategy, branding and the keys to business growth.

Welcome Liz, to the Business Superfans podcast. We're excited to have you here this morning. How are you today, Liz?

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:04:10

I am great. I'm excited to be here.

Freddy D: 00:04:13

We had a great conversation before we started recording, so let's kind of continue that conversation and let's go back to the beginning. And what's the backstory of how you started your marketing agency?

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:04:27

That's interesting.

started a software company in: 2000

I think a lot of people who found companies and grow them to a certain extent, there's always that time where you sit down and say, my chapter two is on the horizon. What am I going to do in my chapter two? And that was really a turning point for me as well.

I realized I wasn't so passionate about software necessarily. What I was passionate about was growing companies and the strategy involved in doing that.

So one of the things I did when I was a small business owner is I hired a coach like a lot of executives do. And that coach was the CEO of a company that would later be Hinged.

So it was my coach who I was sitting down with during my discussion on Chapter two. And the more I learned about his vision for Hinge and the more he learned about what I wanted to do in terms of growing companies.

We said we got to work together, so that's how I got to my journey at Hinge. Hinge's journey is also very interesting because it used to be just a design only marketing firm.

And as Lee Fredrickson, who's the founder of Hinge, was thinking about the the marketplace he Realized there are some really good answers out there for B2C firms on how to go to market B2B and more importantly, professional services. They have no idea. They have no idea how they should be marketing. And there's no good answer.

And so that's where Hinge was born, out of a desire to just provide a solid answer to leaders of professional services firms on how they should be using marketing as a vehicle for growth.

Freddy D: 00:06:47

I would totally agree, and it's a great story. But you're absolutely correct, because it's one thing to sell to B2B and it's another thing to sell to B2C. And it's a completely different mindset.

And especially if you're doing services and going to a B2C. So you think of home improvement industry and you think of multitude of other areas. It's a complete different animal.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:07:13

And you know, it really is.

Freddy D: 00:07:14

burned in my brain. Sic code: 3544

And these were the president, the vice President, that's the VP of manufacturing. There's 212 companies in this state and 172 in that state. That's my market. That's where I go. And boom.

But when you're dealing with a whole different aspect, it's a whole different animal because you got to really connect with those people in a unique way. And sounds like you guys have kind of cracked the code on that.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:07:52

We think so, and that's what our clients tell us. So I'll go with that.

But I think the main distinction is when you're selling to consumer, it very much is about the shiny rock and the flashy tagline. And that's not an insult to consumers, by the way. It's just there's so much out there, so you got to stand out.

And that's usually what helps you stand out. When it comes to services, that doesn't cut it. You're working with a very sophisticated set of buyers. You probably experience that yourself.

And they're not swayed by anything that appears to be fluff or noise. What they want is your true authentic expertise.

And so that's really what marketing is all about in professional services, is bringing visibility to what your buyers want. Your expertise.

Freddy D: 00:08:44

Sure. So you look at a law firm, for example, or an accounting firm or a medical facility.

I mean, it's a completely different approach because they're like you mentioned, they're providing a professional service and they've got to be able to differentiate themselves from the, the other law firm. Why would you pick me over the other guys?

And you've got some of these guys that have, you know, the commercials that you hear on TV that they bring you to Big Dollars and all that stuff. There's in my mind they're going to get a piece of the business because they're doing the flashy stuff. But me, I would stay away from those guys.

I would go for the more quiet person that's got, here's, here's the strategy, here's how we're going to help you. And so that I can understand what they're going to bring to the table for me.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:09:33

That's absolutely right. If you can imagine you're out there looking, let's use your example. You're looking for an attorney and you are exposed to so many choices.

This is what our research shows. When buyers are looking for a provider of a service, they'll reach out to their peers. We talked about this a little bit.

Ask who they know and then the other thing they'll do is they'll go online and do their own due diligence because that's how we learn these days. So imagine those scenarios. There's a huge difference between, hey, call this guy, he's great.

This woman is the best versus you have to talk to this guy. He is the expert in X. There's nobody who does Y better than he does. That's a game changing, absolutely correct experience.

And so your people who are referring, you need to be able to say that. And then everything about your online presence needs to convey to that prospect, hey, this person gets me.

They know what I woke up thinking about at 4am this morning. Couldn't go back to sleep.

Freddy D: 00:10:39

Well, and you bring up an important point there, Liz, because to get those individuals to refer and say, okay, you need to talk to my friend Liz because she's the expert in this area, you've got to create that person into a superfan to be able to want to promote you in the first place.

And even though you still get that referral, we're all going to pick up our phone and we're going to go take a look and says, okay, Liz says, I need to talk to this guy. Let me see who this guy is all about. That's how we live. That's where we are today.

So even though you may have given me a solid referral or more importantly an introduction saying, let me actually Introduce you to John. And I'm still going to look him up. I'm going to take a look at what the social proof is. I'm going to take a look at what his website looks like.

I'm going to take a look at what has he done, who is he performer. Invest thousands and thousands of dollars for the things that I need to have done.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:11:34

That's absolutely right. And you will likely get other referrals. Right. You're out there looking for.

So your friend refers you to John, somebody else is going to refer you to somebody else, and so on. It's an unlikely scenario where you have one referral and you are okay with just that one referral.

You are likely to go out and get a handful of experts to consider. So those experts, they have to stand out.

Freddy D: 00:12:03

Exactly.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:12:04

Meaningfully.

Freddy D: 00:12:05

Exactly. And that's really where you come in. Because you guys help them really differentiate themselves in a unique way that says, huh?

Because you're going to be able to resonate with that person. They've got to be able to connect. And we make decisions in sales emotionally and we justify it logically.

So you've got to make that emotional connection and sometimes it's not verbal, so it's got to be visual and in the choices of words so that it resonates with that person. They'll make pick up the phone and make the phone call to contact that person. Because unless that happens, doesn't matter.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:12:46

Yeah, that's absolutely right.

And I think you're making a really good point about a lot of times in professional services, firms tend to get very literal and linear with their messaging. Here's what we do, what our software does call us.

And I think you're really hitting on a strong point that we try to help our own clients understand there's a time and space to explain what your software does or what your service does Center.

It has to be how do you address the problem that your clients are grappling with in a differentiated way and in a way that ports directly over to what's important to your clients. And as you say, you can do that with imagery, you can do that with headlines. But this is like strategic thinking here.

It's not the pay an agency to come up with a just do it type of slogan. It works in the consumer space, doesn't work in the B2B or professional services.

Freddy D: 00:13:47

No, totally agree. I was working with an interpreting and translation company and I was researching all the competitors, how did they position?

Because I was running the company and so I was like, okay, I got to know who my competition is, what's their strategy, Everything else. I did all the recon work, but one of the things I really liked that they had done was they had a video that they did about one of their customers.

But what was really unique about it, it was not about them. Yes, it was all about the customer.

And they happened to be the people behind the scenes providing language services to help this agency do the wonderful things that they were doing with non English proficient individuals. And you know, you got moved by what this company did and what they were all about.

But behind the scenes they were the guys pulling all the levers and you got that out of the video and you went like, I like these guys. And they created that emotional connection through that video. And that was their marketing approach.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:14:53

Yeah, I think the more firms can approach their marketing through the lens of what's going to resonate with my buyers as opposed to what so many firms do, which is, here's who we are.

Freddy D: 00:15:06

Here'S what we do, how wonderful we are.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:15:08

Yeah. One thing I often tell our clients is don't fall into the trap of selling and telling doesn't work. You've got to educate and resonate.

And when you think about those two things are polar opposite. Selling and telling is the linear equation that I was talking about earlier.

Educate by producing well written, well thought out thought leadership that shows demonstrates that you understand how to solve the problem that is keeping your clients up at night. And when you do that, that's the resonance you and I were talking about earlier.

Someone goes to your website, checks you out and they see that type of thought leadership.

They see headlines and imagery that immediately connect emotionally so that you say, you know what, this software company that sells this thing that I think I'm interested in, they get that what I'm really after at the end of the day is growth, profitability or efficiency. But yeah, the software is just a vehicle to that. So you really do have to think through how your whole online Persona connects.

It's just so much more than who you are, what you do.

Freddy D: 00:16:20

Oh sure, you bring back some memories. I'd say I was probably ahead of the curve in some areas. As I mentioned before we started recording, I got into the SaaS space in its very infancy.

And so I had the wild ride of like the Mad Men series of the marketing days. I rode that wave in the computer industry. It was a blast up till about mid-90s when I got into sales.

I flipped the script on things and I created educational luncheon workshops back then. There was no Internet. So we would send out letters inviting business owners and their VPs of engineering. VPs of manufacturing.

This is a lunch and learn. We come on in, no pricing, no nothing.

And we're going to talk about how technology is evolving in the engineering and manufacturing place and how it may affect your business down the road. That was the whole strategy.

And then I hired the ladies in our executive suites to call to all the guys in the manufacturing world and they would come into the luncheon and we would demonstrate our software. But we weren't selling it.

We were talking about the ways it was changing machining, the way it was changing engineering, and a multitude of different things. This is how it's going to improve and this is where the world's going.

And what would happen is I'd get these guys says, hey Frederick, would you like to come on into our shop and take a look and tell us how this may be applicable to us? That's all I needed because I got invited in. The rest was toast.

They invited me in, but then at the same time, once I was in, I started talking about business strategy. Where do they see themselves two, three, four years from now? And then we talked about how this can help them get to that vision.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:18:10

Yes, you're making me think about a data point that we have. So I mentioned earlier that one of the things my company Hinge, is known for is our research.

One of the bodies of research we do have been doing it for. We just crossed the 10 year mark actually. And we studied the behavior of high growth firms.

How are they using their marketing, what kind of attention are they giving their brand? What techniques are they getting the most leverage out of?

And you just touched on the number one technique that gives the most roi and it's demos and free consultations. Why is that? High growth firms are only able to get invited to the table to give those demos if they've made the case for their expertise.

So a lot of times companies will come to us and they say, hey, I read your research and demos are the top technique. And we got free demo all over our website, no calls, nobody's asking us. And I say, let's take a look at what you're missing.

There's no thought leadership to speak of. There's no evidence that you're the experts your audience is looking for.

So of course you don't get invited to the table to give the demo because at the end of the day that's really selling. But it's such an important distinction between a company that only Tries to pitch their wares versus educating, educate their audience.

And that's what you're talking about. And it's just couldn't be more true.

Freddy D: 00:19:37

Yeah, I mean that's what propelled my success. I say I was ahead of the curve and I was fortunate.

I went through six months of super high end sales training program programs with Wilson, Learning, Vanguard and a multitude of other things. So I had a little bit of an advantage and got trained in that stuff. Early days.

But I look back and those are some really fun times because of the fact that we were in a whole new era and people would want to come in because they wanted to learn because they've heard whispers about this stuff. So they wanted to check it out for themselves.

And people can still apply that today if they do it in a clever way because now we're bombarded with AI and all this stuff. So one of the ways is you can create a workshop that says, hey, come on in and let's take a look at what this technology is all about.

And here's some ideas that you could. You apply it and then it just creates the conversation. To me that's the secret is you create the conversation from there. It's up to you.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:20:39

Yeah, I like what you're saying about create the conversation. So another technique that delivers so much ROI is something I mentioned a second ago. Free consultations, free assessments.

This is the best business development opportunity that a firm can have.

And so if you begin to use your website or any other marketing materials to promote the fact that, hey, you can call me, we'll talk for an hour about these four things regarding the health or the growth of your firm. Fill in the blank to whatever's going to be relevant to your audience. Audience.

But that's very different than a contact us and fill out this form, we'll talk. That doesn't get much leverage. But a free assessment, we'll talk for an hour.

We're going to look at these five aspects of your firm and I can let you know the different KPIs that you need to be aware of or the four signals that you're headed in the wrong direction. And then you have your opportunity to pitch your software and how it addresses that. Your service.

Freddy D: 00:21:46

Sure. Because you gotta acknowledge what you're doing is you're giving value. So they're already getting value right off the bat.

And once you get that value, then all of a sudden you go, well, that was some good stuff. I want to continue that conversation.

So it's really key though is that when you do get that consultation to really knock it out of the park with the value that you're providing.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:22:09

Yeah. I want to tie that back to something you talked about a second ago, which is a premise of what you do, which is creating super fans.

I've experienced this myself. I don't know if you've had this experience where I talk to a prospect.

I'm educating them and conveying my expertise, and they might not have been ready to sell, but there's something magical that happens in that transaction. They become superfans without even using your service. I've had a handful of referrals come to me by people who haven't even used our company.

But that initial interaction during the sales process was so valuable, they walked away with tangible things they could do to improve without even paying me a dime. That creates super fans, too.

Freddy D: 00:22:57

Absolutely correct.

I mean, you couldn't have nailed that out of the ballpark any better, because the reality is, what you just did is you provide so much value that they're going to think back and go, wow, they're taken back. First they got to process it. And then, absolutely, they're going to go, wow, Liz really helped me out here.

And then they're going to be out there with their friends, and they're going to all of a sudden say, you know what? You need to talk to my friend Liz. It's going to be my friend Liz. And that's how that momentum goes. And people overlook that.

One of my quotes that I talk about is, the little things are really the big things. What you just described there was really a little thing, but to that individual, it was a big thing.

And when that happens, that's how you transform super fans and super fans. I'll use the Chicago Cubs as a perfect example. Okay. We all know the Chicago Cubs around the whole country, the world probably knows about them.

They had superfans for decades waiting for them to win a World Series. They finally did, but it took almost 100 years. But the bottom line was they had superfans that stuck with them through thick and thin.

And when you create superfans for your business, they're going to stick with you through thick and thin.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:24:20

That's right. There's no better testament to that than the current times where the marketplace is up, down, sideways, across and throughout.

And it's very difficult. It's not just about one event. It's a multitude of events, and we just can't catch a break.

I think a lot of times in instances like that, leaders say, we gotta cut Corners, probably. Marketing is the first thing to cut.

If you approach marketing as a vehicle for what they're truly after, which is smart and sustained and predictable growth, then what you're talking about becomes the reality. And they rely on you. You are that sounding board. You're not just someone to talk about an email campaign.

You're here to talk about what is going to sustain their payroll for the coming years and what's the strategy behind it. So I really resonate with what you said.

Freddy D: 00:25:19

Oh, yeah, thank you. And, you know, you look at Walmart, Walmart put the gas pedal down when everything was all upside down and look at where they're at today.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:25:28

Yes.

Freddy D: 00:25:29

So that's a lesson for people that are listening. When things get turmoil, sometimes it's time to put the gas pedal down, because that's the opportunity. The window's there.

You can dominate your market space.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:25:40

That's right.

Freddy D: 00:25:41

So, Liz, let's talk a little bit about a company that you worked with and you kind of transformed them into what I would call a superfan because of the work that you guys did. So what's that story?

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:25:52

There's a lot that come to mind. But it's funny that your background is in the software space. We worked with a client. This was many moons ago, at least a decade.

And they were a small boutique software company, very literal guys and very technical people. And when we met, their pipeline had stalled, couldn't really get new business. They were drinking the Kool Aid that we were putting out there.

You got to bring visibility to your expertise. But they were super skeptical that we marketing people could understand them well enough to actually do this for them and help them.

So they're willing to listen, but with a big degree of skepticism. And so we started working with them.

And one of the things we started doing was overhauling all this very technical content that they were putting out there with every acronym under the sun that you can think of. And it would require a technologist to just get through that, digest it, and understand how to apply it.

We overhauled that, wrote it for a C level reader. A C level reader who isn't the technologist who is interested in growth and wants to learn how can I apply this technology to my growth equation?

And it was so gratifying because shortly into our work with them, the CEO, the client we were working with, said, your content is knocking my socks off. I just remember that quote. And it was to take somebody who had that healthy dose of skepticism about, can you really do this and will it really work?

And we Showed them that it works.

Later, about 13 months after we brought visibility to them and it was through their expertise kind of foundation, they were acquired by a very large tech player out there. And so they went from, I think they were under 1 1/2 million in revenues when they came to us.

And they catapulted way past that once they were acquired.

Freddy D: 00:28:06

So you could say those guys were big time super fans.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:28:10

They have continued to give referrals to us since that time. And they themselves, they're serial entrepreneurs. So they found more companies and more companies.

And we're always the first group that they come to when they need to get a growth strategy behind those. So it is creating super fans.

And it's so gratifying when you know they're super fans because of the value that you added like you were mentioning earlier.

Freddy D: 00:28:37

And it really doesn't cost a lot to create those super fans. And maintaining those relationships is really just doing what you just discussed, maintaining that relationship, helping them get to their goals.

And you help enough people get to where they want to go, you don't have to worry about yourself. You're pulled in automatically and people lose sight of that.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:29:00

That's right.

Freddy D: 00:29:01

So what are some of the services that you guys offer?

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:29:06

In a way, we're a full service marketing agency. So we build strategies, we build tools like websites and collateral and we also implement.

So the story I was just telling where we will do the tactical part of whatever the strategy says.

So I think the way to think about our services is almost as an outsourced marketing team and sounding board for companies who either don't have any marketing people at all or they have a marketing team. But that team is rooted in traditional marketing as opposed to what it takes to really get traction in today's digital marketplace.

And we're not only about digital. I should say traditional marketing very much has a play. You were talking about lunch.

And learns anything you can do to bring authenticity to the table. Get people to meet you, get face to face. That's gotta be part of the mix as well.

Freddy D: 00:30:07

Absolutely right. Because that's how the word spreads about what it is that you offer.

And like we talked earlier, they may not be the right person for you at that point in time, but they can refer you to somebody else.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:30:23

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:30:24

And maybe down the road they come back. You know, it baffles me and I'm sure you've experienced this as well.

You've gone to some event, you've met some people, you've said, hey, you know, let's continue the conversation, you reach out to them, says, hey, let's grab a video or coffee or whatever, and it's crickets. And I always go, man, you just have no clue because you'll never know who I know because you didn't take the coffee or do a video chat.

I've had video chats with people after a networking event and we've never done any business, but they've referred somebody to me because I referred somebody to them. I said, oh, I know somebody because I met them.

If you don't take time to continue that conversation with somebody you meet, you've actually wasted each other's time.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:31:19

Yeah, for sure. And I'm happy to see that in person events are having a resurgence in popularity and also utility.

I think it's just because one of the things we learned from a couple years ago is that in person, face to face opportunity, it builds trust. It builds trust that has been eroded for so many years because we sat behind screens, firms didn't end up delivering on the promise, so on and so on.

And so I think that in person interaction is becoming so important in today's environment and it is what helps you stand out.

And one of the things that we counsel our clients on is make sure you are integrating a networking and in person event strategy into your overall marketing equation. But have it sit on a bedrock of excellent thought leadership.

Because imagine when you enter a room and you shake people's hands and they're able to say, oh, you know what? I keep seeing your stuff on LinkedIn, it is so good.

And someone passed this white paper that you guys wrote on to me because they said I had to read it. It was really excellent.

It's game changing when you have that behind you, when you're trying to shake people's hands versus you don't have anything else except business card.

Freddy D: 00:32:40

The other thing I'm going to add to that is follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up. Because I've had so many networking events that I've gone through live, I've even ran my own for a while.

Back in: 2010

But it blows my mind where people go to networking events and you exchange cards, you says, yeah, let's continue the conversation. And like I mentioned earlier, it becomes crickets. And they squander so many opportunities.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:33:21

I know. It also blows my mind.

We were working with a client who had an event like that and we were following up with them, asking if they had done their follow up. And it's oh, I forgot, Oh, I forgot. You have to schedule time.

This is what we do after every or before any event that we go to protect time on your calendar, post event to do that follow up. And it's just like going to the gym. You gotta schedule it or it's not gonna happen. So we're all very busy.

You're busy running your company, you're servicing your own clients. But that follow up, it's gotta be scheduled. And it sounds like a no brainer, but you're absolutely right. It's out of sight, out of mind.

Freddy D: 00:34:03

Another thing that I've, I have my own rule is that, you know, an inquiry comes in through the website, you get a 15 minute window.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:34:10

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:34:11

You need to reach out to those people within 15 minutes. If you don't, it's lost, it's gone. Bye, bye. They went somewhere else. I've closed more sales with the interpreting company.

I was running it, but I was also the sales guy and the marketing guy and wore all the hats because it was a small 10 man band.

But I'd get to people within minutes and I just have a standard email response that would go out to them, but it would got your inquiry reaching out to acknowledge that we received it and I'll be calling you in a little bit. And I'd contact them and they'd be like, wow. And it was done. The deal was done.

They had no chance to go to anybody else because then they started asking all the questions and I set the standard.

And one of the things that I teach people and talk about in sales, you either want to be the first person because you can set the bar, you never want to be the person in the middle, or you want to be the last person because you can bat cleanup.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:35:02

That's right.

Freddy D: 00:35:02

The middle person always loses if you know you're in second. Here's your tip. Reschedule to be the last person.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:35:08

That's right. One of the things that we abide by at Hinge is like in the old days in school, everybody was taught like during fire drills, stop, drop and roll.

So we say stop, drop and call. That's what you do. You get a lead, stop, drop and call. You gotta get in touch with them right away.

Otherwise you're probably gonna be second or third.

Freddy D: 00:35:30

Yeah. So this has been a pleasure having a chat with you and great insights, great information. We could probably talk for hours on this stuff.

So how can people find you?

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:35:43

Well I am on LinkedIn like a lot of professional services people so you can find me there at ehar Elizabeth as opposed to Liz. But you can also go to hingemarketing.com and learn all about some of the research that I mentioned and I'm also there.

Freddy D: 00:36:01

Thank you so much for your time. It's been a great conversation. We definitely would love to have you on the show again down the road.

Elizabeth (Liz) Harr: 00:36:06

I enjoyed it so much. It was great talking to you.

Freddy D: 00:36:09

Thank you. Before we wrap, here's your quick debrief. Each episode in this nine part series zooms in on one powerful pillar of my Superfans framework.

Nine proven steps designed to turn your business from a flicker of potential and into unstoppable, scalable prosperity.

The pillars are S Strategize U Unite P Propel E Elevate R Rally F Finance Fortify A Automate N Nurture S Sustain each week we spotlight one pillar, extract a game changing insight from today's guest and close with your Superfan Success Spark, a bold 24 hour action you can take immediately to move your business forward.

Follow along through all nine episodes, collect each spark and you'll have a step by step playbook to create superfans who fuel rave reviews, rocking referrals and rising revenue.

Then we reset the cycle with nine brand new sparks, fresh guests and even more strategies to help you scale with clarity, purpose and unstoppable momentum. Ready?

Here's this episode Spark in our nine part series, here's the Superfan Success Spark F Finance Guard margins, optimize cash flow and reinvest profits for growth. So here's a top insight you have to stand out with authentic expertise before you can get invited to the table.

Otherwise your free demo offer won't be bringing in a dime. Liz Har So here's your 24 hour action step.

Audit your top offer or service page and add one clear proof point of your expertise, an example case study, data point or testimonial to increase perceived value before the sales conversation. We hope you took away some useful knowledge from today's episode of the Business Superfans Podcast. The path to success relies on taking action.

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