Transforming Clients into Lifelong Partners in the Insurance Game with Butch Zemar

Butch Zemar: 00:02:21

The other things, right? You do the little things like you said those extras, right? That helps. And then, and then I do certain things like I got hockey pucks.

I think I sent you one. Sent out some hockey pucks or hand them out. Because how many other insurance agents are giving out hockey pucks? I would say zero.

And then how many insurance agents have podcasts? It's very few and far between, but they are definitely out there and they're leaders in the industry.

So I encourage people to listen to them as well and I think a lot of that helps come together and create super fans.

Freddy D: 00:02:50

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An accomplished writer and engaging speaker often called upon for his vast knowledge in the health insurance marketplace, Zamar recently launched his first podcast, the Zamar Podcast, which focuses on business related topics for small and mid sized business owners as well as insurance options. The podcast is available on both Amazon and Apple.

As an authority on healthcare reform, Zamar provides a stringent focus on determining the benefits insurance needs of employees, small and large employee benefits programs and healthcare reform.

A true resource and advisor to CFOs, controllers and human resources, Zamar has also developed Elite Benefits Formula, a process that all businesses should go through to get. Ahead of the healthcare curve welcome to the Business Superfam podcast. Our guest today is Butch Zamar with Elite benefits. Welcome, Butch.

Butch Zemar: 00:05:05

Hey, thanks, Freddy D. So how'd you.

Freddy D: 00:05:07

Get started into insurance?

Butch Zemar: 00:05:10

I always say it was always by accident. I was young, in my early 20s and I worked in the scuba industry full time and working for a small business owner and it wasn't getting anywhere.

And so I was looking for an outside sales position and end up finding a place that was an outside sales for and they call Captive. We can only sell one product line for health insurance for solopreneurs and small business owners.

And I'm like sure, they throw a big picture on the board saying how much money you can make. And of course my first year out I made a fraction of that. Like not even close. And I probably should have quit in the first year.

But I'm into my 19th year. I'll be 20 years next year. And I think we're heading the right path.

Freddy D: 00:05:51

Wow.

Almost 20 years doing stuff. That's amazing. What do you think that differentiates you? And in lasting 20 years because not a lot of insurance people last that long.

So you're doing something different than the other people. And what can you share that's sustained you for all this time?

Butch Zemar: 00:06:11

Perseverance probably and meeting guys like you and coffee shops along the way because good people hang out in the right spots. But I would say it's always the good guy. Never finishes earlier. It's always last. And so I think there's a lot of integrity that I bring to the game.

Just a lot of my peers do too. But I think the biggest turning point is really is just that trying to do the best job for the clients. Just any other professional would. Right. And.

And that's created dividends.

So like for one prime example, right before our recording here, so I have a guy text messaging from his accountant's office because there was a health related tax situation. And I had 10 minutes before I got on the phone with you or got on the. The zoom call here. And so I called him and said hey, I got.

I'm a guest this time. I got to hurry this up but I want to make sure you get your answer. And so he said I'm just going to hand the phone over.

So I end up talking to the tax guy literally three minutes. And we. And he got all the information he needed and they were done. How many people really would. And I was just coincidence. I was available.

But little things like that. And that guy will never. He's been with me probably almost 20 years. And he'll never go anywhere else. And I think he's a super fan of yours.

He's a super fan. I was just gonna put that plug in there. Right. Like you create super fans along the way and those are the ones that stick around forever. And there.

There was years ago. I remember I showed up for a meeting. We never even got the meeting off the ground. But he's. I'm in a pinch. He's.

Can you take one of my guys over to my other shop? And so I'm like, yeah sure, I'm already here. So I drive him to the other shop and the guy's still with me even to this day. And it's.

That one's probably 20 years too. And. And he still brings up that story that he was in a jam and I happened to show up. And it was in southern Illinois too. On top of it, farmland.

And just good people down there. But so anyhow. Yeah. Like you do the little things to keep. I would. Right things. Right.

And we just keep plugging along with having the right thing of customers first to get them what we can. And healthcare is definitely a hard thing, especially in employee benefits space. Right. There's always this ever changing model.

And then you go out to see a business owner and you're like, hey, the renewal is 20%. Like you can imagine the look in their eye. And they're like holy smokes, I gotta meet payroll next week.

And you just told me I got a 20% increase on health insurance for the entire employee base. So providing solutions to save money. Money talks. And so in other situations that create loyalty and longevity. One example is a construction outfit.

Small five employees on the plan and we end up saving them $30,000 over two years. I got a hot. I got Hawks tickets out of that one. But. And he was a guy, he came.

It was the two of us and we went with a couple other people and it was a fun time. But. And obviously he still kept most of the savings. The Hawk tickets weren't that much, especially with the losing season. Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:08:57

But again, you just became a super fan because of the fact that you took the time to come up with some clever ways to save him money and put money back in his pocket versus just here it is. And sorry, it is what it is and there's nothing I can do. So that. That, that's what builds that customer loyalty and retention.

Butch Zemar: 00:09:21

Yeah, for sure. And that's just. Just a few snapshots of why it's worked so far.

We've had our ups and downs but just I always joke with people, especially because health insurance is perceived as a commodity and it's really not. So then therefore you just go with the more charming personality guy. And so that's true. I always say that's me, right? And at least I hope it's me.

Freddy D: 00:09:42

So how important is it to develop relationships with the customers and what are some of the things that you do different than other agents?

Butch Zemar: 00:09:51

That's a great question. Because it's a relationship business and a lot of insurance. Other insurance agents will try to get on the good side of things and that works, right?

Like you find out when their kids birthdays are and you find out what their passion is, whether it's scuba or if it's golf. And then you can build relationships and that's great. And that's worked over the years, right. For many of us, right.

And, and I still use ideas to try to figure out how to why people tick, but also just to find out what' important to them.

And so it could be a little as finding out what they did in college and then all of a sudden you're reading a Wall Street Journal and that article was related to something they said, related to what they did in college, so you send it to them, right? And especially more so by mail because nobody's sending anything.

And so it's probably those little touches that make a little bit difference to build that relationship, right? Because now I always say insurance isn't sexy, right? You could put lipstick on a pig and put high heels on it doesn't change anything, right?

And so most people are not jumping on my podcast or my book or my website and saying I want to learn as much as I can about health insurance. They're not doing it right. And so you have to find just another clever niche to get in the door.

And sometimes it could just be just the little things, right? And, and you just have to work with the people and get to know them. And sometimes that takes a long time.

And because they're closed door, they think we're a commodity and the next guy, somebody wants their business, right? There's enough there, right. There's some accounts that could, you can be making a grand a year off of and the next guy wants it just as bad as you.

And so what's that extra edge going to be? And, and I think most business owners especially listen to your podcast, we try to do that.

Some say it's over and beyond, but sometimes it's just being genuine and human, right? Like small town personality friendships just because.

Freddy D: 00:11:41

It'S all about relationships. People buy from people that they like and trust. And that's like you say, that's very important is going above and beyond.

And it's one of the chapters in the book is really is doing the unexpected extras, what I call it, which is something that you do that the person wasn't expecting. And it just sets you apart from everybody else.

Butch Zemar: 00:12:01

A hundred percent butch.

Freddy D: 00:12:02

What kind of things that you do to get your customers to be basically referral sources for your. What I would call business super fans that are out there promoting and giving you referrals?

Butch Zemar: 00:12:16

A lot of it could be just from an industry perspective to take the time to actually explain things. I'm sure other people are like this too, where I have a knack in some ways to dumb it down. Right. Insurance could be really complex. Right.

And I think that in itself makes it referable because I could relate and speak at the level that they understand by not being in the industry. And I think that's cool. And then the other things, right. You do the little things like you said, those extras. Right. That helps. And then.

And then I do certain things like I got hockey pucks. I think I sent you one. Sent out some hockey pucks or hand them out because how many other insurance agents are giving out hockey pucks?

And I would say zero. And then how many insurance agents have podcasts?

It's very few and far between, but they are definitely out there and they're leaders in the industry. So I encourage people to listen to them as well. And I think a lot of that helps come together and create super fans. And. And they become.

You become referable at that point. Right. And in some cases, just by doing the right thing and then sharing that knowledge. Right. And. And one.

One example is years ago when the Affordable Care act was passed, I wrote a book on it, but a reader digest version. So it's very simple. And even to this day, I still get referrals and said they'll. They'll call me and said, hey, so.

And so said to call you because you wrote the book on the Affordable Care act and instant super fan. Yep.

Freddy D: 00:13:35

And so you're an expert, you're a knowledgeable person and you're sharing your knowledge to help educate other people so they can make educated decisions with regards to their insurance requirements.

Butch Zemar: 00:13:48

That's.

Freddy D: 00:13:48

That's a differentiator. Right? In itself for sure. What strategies do you use to ensure customers stay with you a long time?

You mentioned a couple of them that have been with you for 20 some years. What are the things that makes that difference.

Butch Zemar: 00:14:04

That's a great question, because there's so many different tactics that people recommend and I certainly not one to figure it out, but there's things that I personally have tried to do even as we grew up, because we grew and there were certain things I used to do and then I ran out of time and capacity and I can't do the same things. So you have to do enough to keep moving and definitely stay in touch right there.

And we, before we started recording this, we were talking about ways and strategies to stay in touch. And podcasts and articles and publications are just one form of that, let alone like just quick note just to say, hey, I. I'm thinking about you.

I hope you're doing fine. And if there's anything you need, just call. And even at that there's people, I say it doesn't have to be about health insurance.

You need a plumber, need a doctor. Yeah. You need a lawyer. Right. Call me. Right. I. I'm connecting so many ways that maybe I don't have a resource, but I got somebody that does.

And so that's definitely paid dividends to, to keep longevity. And then obviously it's the constant touch. Right. And so we have a team that, that works on a.

We have internal processes to help stay in front of them, get in front of them, especially when renewals are coming in. And we were working on January 1st stuff in the last 60 days, and people were still on vacation. Right. And we're ahead of the spectrum.

And I think people appreciate that instead of waiting to the last second and, and everybody's a little bit different on touch points, right. So there's certain people that want to wait a little later, and there are certain ones that want the phone call, they don't want the email.

So it just depends on. And you learn those personalities as time goes on. And sometimes.

And you were from Chicago at some point, I know you're originally from Michigan, but sometimes you just have to get into that conversation with a client to figure it out. And a lot of south side of Chicago, they're just going to tell you the way it is, right?

And sometimes that'll point you in the right direction to know how to work with them. And so there are some clients that, like some of my staff won't call them. I have to call them because of the personality.

And that's, that's fine because I understand their personality.

And once we get on the same page with that personality and how they want to do business, everything flows easier and I think a lot of times in business transactions, sometimes we're so worried about the transaction, we never get beyond that. Goes back to the relationship. And then eventually once you get on that side of the fence and get on that side of the desk, then you become.

You start making super fans.

Freddy D: 00:16:23

Yeah. It's. Relationships is everything.

And you bring up an interesting point that I don't think a lot of people really take into consideration is the different personality types and being able to adjust, and that's the key word, adjust your personality to the other person's personality type. If you've got someone, that's what I would call a driver personality. And you're the opposite.

You're an amiable personality and you're not going to get along. It's just not going to happen. So you got. And, and you're the, the amiable person.

As an example, you might be an analytical person or you might be an expressive person. You've got to make, you got to make tweaks for that relationship to work, because otherwise you're talking, but neither one of you are listening.

Butch Zemar: 00:17:09

Sure, absolutely. And I, and you make good points. One, one thing I try to do is let them lead. Right. And then they're leading the. And then I just follow. Right.

And I just adapt as we go along. Because the reality is it's not about me, and it's not about the product, it's not about the commissions, it's not about the people I, I serve.

It's about the person that needs the product itself. Right. And, and, and we have to meet them where they're at. And we're some business. We. And you work with business owners, too.

They're business owners at a certain point that you're, you could see things because you've been there, you've been around it, but you can't tell them yet because they're not there yet. So you have to meet them where they're at.

And then there's other businesses that are at a different level or person, people that are at different levels, and you have to meet them where they're at. And so it's just a matter of adjusting and getting to know and seeing that. Right. And making. And it comes with experience.

You've been in business a long time, right. And so you've seen a lot of personalities all walks of life.

And, and I think that helps build a little, you know, culture that comes into the workplace that these businesses are working with. And not only me, but like, I'm buying from them. Right. And as long as the everybody's coming together and meeting where they're at. I think it's a win.

Right.

Freddy D: 00:18:18

So what do you do with, with your team?

How do you get them motivated and how do you get them to become super fans of elite benefits and promoting the, the organization to the, the circle of people that they know.

Butch Zemar: 00:18:33

I'm indebted to the staff for sure and I, I hired, in some ways we had some learning curves and a couple people are gone, but they're, I've been lucky for the staff that's there and I think it's that pay it forward mentality and we don't try to create conflict, resolve it.

Like I always say, we're in a square peg round hold industry and they, I think just by keeping everything positive and outcomes and then obviously the team meetings and keeping communication going and then praise and give them credit where credit's due, like I'm doing right now. But I, there's so much that they do independently that I, I couldn't do on my own either.

And so I think that gives them the wisdom and the power to keep pushing along and having pride in what they do. And, and that comes obviously from the company itself. And I think that obviously resonates with the people that they communicate with.

And I get the feedback from the clients too, where I get on the phone, they're like, oh, I talked to someone, they were wonderful. Like, how'd you find her? And then she actually found me.

I don't, I couldn't tell you, like I'm not going to take any credit for that, but so I think that's probably what it comes down to is just having that environment. Right.

And I think paying it forwards all the time and defending your staff when certain situations come up, even when the mistakes are there and that way you make them feel like you're, they're being supported and then obviously let them lead a little bit so they can take a little ownership and things. And I think that's helped throughout the years too.

Freddy D: 00:19:58

Oh, absolutely. One of my quotes in a book is that people will crawl through broken glass for appreciation and recognition.

That's what you're doing is you're appreciating them and you're recognizing them and that makes a big, huge difference in, in their mindset. Because at the end of the day, just like you said, they're the front line.

So that particular customer that talks to them, they're representing the business.

So if they're, they don't feel appreciated and they're not been recognized, their Whole tonality is going to be different, their whole approach, demeanor is going to be different and that outcome is going to be different.

Butch Zemar: 00:20:34

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. You nailed it right there. So yeah, I think we're on the same page. And I think you build a team that resonates with your core values.

I think it pays dividends as time goes on.

Freddy D: 00:20:46

Right. So what about complementary businesses?

How do you work with complementary businesses and get them to become referral sources and your referral sources to them and get them to become super fans of your business?

Butch Zemar: 00:21:01

And that's a great question because when I'm trying to think of all the center of influences that we, that we work with for referrals, like a lot of them are different. And I think the biggest thing is the knowledge behind it. First off, in my industry, I always say that health insurance is the niche product. Right.

So the average insurance agent is not selling health insurance. Right. Just, it's just the way it goes.

So you have a niche product to begin with and then on top of that breaking it down so that people don't feel dumb when you talk to them, making it easy. And I think that's what. And trying to make sense of the non affordable of the affordable side of things. Right.

And because premiums are expensive and I think it's just helping them and then being a resource. Right. I gave the example that it was a client that called and they were at the tax office.

There's a lot of times it's reversed and the tax person calls me and the person on the other side of the desk is not a client of mine, but they're running it past me and I'm, I'm not billing for that time. Right. They're spending 10 minutes on the phone with me trying to figure out a situation for their client and that adds value for them.

It could be a financial advisor that's dealing with a business and they have a situation that occurs and they asked me to come out on a visit to the company to go through things and I walk away. And I always joke that said, if you feel guilty, let's go grab lunch. Right. Like it's not a big deal. And I think that builds the credibility.

As long as I always say, look at, just don't waste my time and I'll be there for you. All right? Just if there's genuine questions, genuine interest and you need to solve a problem for a client, I'll make you look like a rock star.

And that's cool with me. I just want the business to Come that we can get out of it at some point. And it usually comes. Right. It's like the farmer, right?

You just keep farming farming. You're going to have dead crops, right? You really do. You're going to have bad seasons.

But eventually it just starts coming along over a period of time. And the same thing with these referral sources where it takes a long time. Everybody knows an insurance agent, right?

And there's perceptions that come involved where some are better than others, but.

But eventually when you start building that reputation with that person and you become available when to meet them, where they're at, then I think that becomes very credible over time. And then you become a referral source for them.

Freddy D: 00:23:04

Yeah, yeah. Can you share a quick story of. Of a situation where you help somebody with a challenge with.

Regarding insurance and how you were able to get that addressed and turn it around into a positive.

Butch Zemar: 00:23:20

And that's. It's a mixed answer because there's so many different scenarios. Money is the biggest portion of it, right.

So you talk to any business owner, any cfo, any employer in Americ, and it's the top three line items of an expense sheet, Right.

And so a guy like me that comes in with an innovative idea that doesn't jeopardize coverage, doesn't jeopardize provider access, but we're able to drop the price now they're interested, right? And then you become the hero.

But one example is somebody had called and they were connected with another client of mine by family relations, and they were trying. They just said, can you just give us what they got? Because their premiums are lower than ours.

And while we can't do that, they're two separate companies. There's no ownership. And I'm like, how about if I just come out and just talk you through some ideas? And so that's what I did.

We talked through some ideas and we stayed with the exact same carrier. We added a couple plans, we moved things around. I call them plan designs.

We changed some of the plan designs that actually worked in the favor of the employees in the local environment where they were at. And it happened coincidentally, save 25% off the premiums. Right.

And all I did was spend two hours in a car and maybe an hour with them and talked about some of these strategies. And in the first year, this guy saved, I think it was like $28,000 just in the first year we were with him.

Freddy D: 00:24:37

Wow.

Butch Zemar: 00:24:38

And so fast forward two years now, there's trust, there's credibility, because now we have a good relationship because I saved them money. Employees were happy. Right. And it wasn't like it didn't blow up in their face. So we came out with another idea.

And so they were a little bit hesitant because now there's more changes that occur. But we actually decreased the out of pocket expenses.

In this particular case, we actually gave them a slightly larger national network, so they may not need it because they're more local, but if they needed to go to a cancer clinic outside the state of Illinois, for example, they would have easier access to get there. And then on top of that, we brought their premium back down. $50,000 a year.

Freddy D: 00:25:17

Wow, that's huge.

Butch Zemar: 00:25:18

Yeah. And so that guy is a super fan. Oh, he. Yeah. But he gives me hell all the time. But he always actually brings up the podcast all the time.

He goes, you gotta quit the day job and go do this podcast thing for real. And no, it's costing me money. And.

But then it could be on the flip side where there are certain situations that come up where they have an employee that needs to get access to a certain facility.

And there was this one particular client, we did switch carriers because there was a concern, even though there's HIPAA regulations, but the employee was willing to share the information because they needed to get access to a facility to get treatment. And so we end up switching insurance companies. It actually cost them a little bit more.

It was very marginal, but we end up helping that employee extend their life just because they were able to get access to that facility. Right. So the money was not the most important thing in that situation.

But they were trying to help out one employee that was running into problems with provider network situations. And so that creates super fans too. Like, even though it's not a monetary, it definitely gives a peace of mind.

And in other situations, we've put together programs where not only the health insurance may remain the same, but if we could get them access to higher quality facilities, and in some cases, we've actually eliminate the employees out of pocket.

If you think about it, that your employee gets diagnosed with a condition or has a heart attack and you need to go to a heart clinic or you need to go to a cancer clinic, but if you go to some of the higher ratings facilities in America, your cost is zero to go there. The employee pays nothing out of pocket. Right. And so those are the things that we work on on a regular basis to try to reverse that trend. Right.

And create super fans. Right. And all we're trying to do is the right thing. Right. And then commissions is always a big thing in our industry too.

And for years it's always been hidden, right? And so at some point we have to disclose our commissions for what we get paid.

And a lot of times these brokers, the employers find out that they're way overpaid for what the work they do. And I'm only bringing that up because there's loyalty in our industry, in every industry, right?

So there's employers that will never leave their broker or individual or solopreneurs that never will. But they never know how much they're getting paid and what they're getting for it. And is there a better deal out there?

And so a lot of times when we make these big moves and we save the employer money, we actually make less money. But it's not about us. It's about trying to provide make super fans.

Freddy D: 00:27:40

Right? That's. At the end of the day, that's what it is. Because you don't have super fans. You don't have anybody. That's basically, it's a brand advocate.

I just call them business super fans that are out there promoting and, and giving you the reviews. Because in today's world, reviews is the new word of mouth.

Butch Zemar: 00:27:56

Yeah, that's.

Freddy D: 00:27:57

Those things are really important.

Butch Zemar: 00:27:58

Absolutely.

Freddy D: 00:27:59

So, Butch, how can people find you?

Butch Zemar: 00:28:02

LinkedIn's probably the best. I tried to share on a regular basis on there.

We put our podcast up there, maybe little snippets from the podcast as well as articles and other publications that we try to share and broaden the network of centers, influence superfans to try to provide information for LinkedIn's probably the best. I'm the only Butch Z Mar in the whole wide world. So you're not going to misfine me. And Z Mar in general is not that common.

Except for there is an insurance agent in Michigan, believe it or not, with the last name is Zmar. But. And I've actually had a couple of conversations with them.

But the website for the company is elitebenefits.net and then for any of your listeners and super fans that you have, you can get access to some of these things that we had talked about on here for free if you go to elite benefits.netforward/playbook and then you can download your own own playbook and then you could actually see some of the concepts that we had talked about here on this podcast and it won't cost you anything.

Freddy D: 00:28:55

Okay. And is there anything that you're offering to our listeners?

Butch Zemar: 00:29:00

Yeah, the. You can download the free book. Those solopreneurs that, that buy their own health insurance.

You could contact me on LinkedIn and say you heard heard our podcast on the Superfan podcast and then I'll send a quick ebook on how to guide them through purchasing their own health insurance. Whether working with me or not. They could have that for free and along with employers can get access to that playbook.

Freddy D: 00:29:23

Okay, excellent.

Butch Zemar: 00:29:24

We can't discount products on our side so we just give away the content for free. And second opinions are always good too and because at least the current guys in check.

Freddy D: 00:29:33

Cool.

Butch, it was great to having you on a Business Superfam podcast show and hope you had a great time and we look forward to having you again in the near future.

Butch Zemar: 00:29:43

Absolutely, Freddie. It's always good to catch up with you and chat with you. Yeah. All right.

Freddy D: 00:29:47

Thank you.

Butch Zemar: 00:29:48

Thank you.

Outro: 00:29:51

We hope you took away some useful knowledge from today's episode of the Business Superfans podcast. The path to success relies on taking action. So go over to businesssuperfans.com and get your hands on the book.

If you haven't already, join the accelerator community and take that first step in generating a team of passionate supporters for your business. Join us on the next episode as we continue guiding you on your journey to achieve flourishing success in business.

Butch Zemar: 00:30:18

This.