Gamify the Journey, Multiply the Loyalty: How Mark Stern is Reinventing Customer Experience

Freddy D: 00:01:37

Hey, superfans superstar Freddie D. Here. In this episode 108, we're joined by Mark Stern, a visionary entrepreneur and a powerhouse behind Custom Box Agency.

Mark is a Forbes Next: 1000

With an MBA from Duke and featured in Joey Coleman's Never Lose an Employee Again, Mark brings an incredible blend of strategic thinking and creative innovation to the world of customer experience.

As a founder of multiple ventures including active deck and 57 hats, and the creator of the upcoming Built by podcast, Mark is on a mission to transform how brands engage and retain customers through physical to digital strategies, gamification, and unforgettable experience design. Get ready for a conversation packed with bold ideas, smart systems, and insights that can help turn your customers into lifelong superfans.

Freddy D: 00:02:37

Hey, it's Freddie D. Here with another episode of the Business Superfan podcast. We're super excited to have Mark Stern from Custom Box Agency.

Speaker C: 00:02:46

I'm thrilled to be here, Freddie D.

Mark Stern: 00:02:47

Thank you for having me.

Freddy D: 00:02:48

So, Mark, tell us a little bit about what's the backstory? How did Custom Box Agency come all about?

Mark Stern: 00:02:55

, I left Corporate America in: 2018

Speaker C: 00:03:04

And virtual summits were like the big.

Mark Stern: 00:03:05

Thing that a lot of people were doing in that model. It's like you're interviewing 30 to 40 people and it's leveraged as a lead generation tool.

Speaker C: 00:03:13

But you would dump these 30 to.

Mark Stern: 00:03:15

40 interviews on someone and tell them they had 24 hours to listen to a subset of them, otherwise they lose access. And the challenge I was having is I build all this content and. And then it would get gated and when people would purchase it, it was.

Speaker C: 00:03:28

Just overwhelming to kind of dump 40.

Mark Stern: 00:03:30

Hours of content on them and not have an easy way to navigate it.

Speaker C: 00:03:34

So where a lot of this started.

Mark Stern: 00:03:35

Is when I started doing these virtual events or virtual summits, I had just wished that people would send me the.

Speaker C: 00:03:40

Tools and resources I needed out of.

Mark Stern: 00:03:42

The gates to be set up for.

Speaker C: 00:03:43

Success and get an outcome faster. And so we started doing that with.

Mark Stern: 00:03:47

The products we launched. And it didn't matter if it was a virtual event or if it was.

Speaker C: 00:03:51

A course or a coaching program.

Mark Stern: 00:03:53

In my mind, how do I literally.

Speaker C: 00:03:55

Send you everything you need to have a result faster?

Mark Stern: 00:03:57

And the theory of this is remove the obstacles that are preventing our people.

Speaker C: 00:04:02

From being set up for success out of the gate.

Mark Stern: 00:04:03

And what I mean by that is if you require me to print something out. You just put up a hurdle because you're assuming I have a printer. It has paper, it has ink, it's hooked up to my computer. I'm organized.

When I print everything out, if you just send me what I need, you take that obstacle out of the table. And as we started to transition into Covid, this idea became more and more relevant because we were all dislocated, we.

Speaker C: 00:04:26

Were all in quarantine. And the power of being able to.

Mark Stern: 00:04:29

Send you something was a big differentiator that a lot of people weren't doing.

Speaker C: 00:04:33

And so this business just started to.

Mark Stern: 00:04:35

Grow during the pandemic.

Freddy D: 00:04:36

Yeah, it's kind of like a little bit of old school where everybody does email nowadays. And yet people overlook that one of the best marketing strategies is direct mail. It works.

So you're really doing the same thing but in a different way.

Mark Stern: 00:04:50

It's funny that you say that because it's true that what's old is new again.

Speaker C: 00:04:54

And it's amazing how much of a differentiator.

Mark Stern: 00:04:56

We like to talk about this idea of what is experience because we experience through our senses.

Speaker C: 00:05:01

And when we go more and more digital, and especially this rise of AI.

Mark Stern: 00:05:05

The digital channels pretty much tap into.

Speaker C: 00:05:07

What you see and what you hear.

Mark Stern: 00:05:08

It doesn't tap into touch, taste, smell. Activating more senses creates more of an experience. It's hard to replace walking through Disney.

Speaker C: 00:05:16

World or going to your favorite restaurant.

Mark Stern: 00:05:18

But when I mail you something, it's a huge differentiator, especially if the physical can compliment digital.

And so I'm with you to say, I think direct mail and the physical game, especially as it aligns to digital, is just becoming more and more relevant in this age of AI.

Freddy D: 00:05:32

Yeah, it's basically really differentiates you, just like you said Mark. And then the other part of it is from a marketing perspective, there's nothing really better because email gets buried.

I mean, there's times people said, hey, I've sent you an email, didn't get it. Oh, forgot to check junk mail.

And this way I've even told people, postcard marketing is actually a great way of marketing because it's not even in an envelope. So you're going to get at least that 10, 15 seconds, they're going to see it. You have a micro chance of having something happen with it.

Speaker C: 00:06:06

And that's the power of sending a box.

Mark Stern: 00:06:07

When you send something physical, like a box, something bulkier in the mail, People always love receiving physical things in the mail. They're going to open it and so you See open rates for a direct.

Speaker C: 00:06:17

Mail campaign versus open rates for email. It's night and day when you start.

Mark Stern: 00:06:21

To look at the numbers because you're getting these numbers up in the 90 plus percentage of people opening, whereas email open rates are significantly lower.

Speaker C: 00:06:28

And so it's just a way to stand out.

Freddy D: 00:06:30

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how does Custom Box work?

Mark Stern: 00:06:34

Yeah. So what we do at Custom Box Agency is we anchor everything on the customer journey. And so basically what we want to look at is if I know how.

Speaker C: 00:06:41

Important if you're selling a product or.

Mark Stern: 00:06:43

Service, the way that this works is there's a pathway that exists in some capacity on how you're taking your customers.

Speaker C: 00:06:50

From onboarding or start here to the desired outcome.

Mark Stern: 00:06:54

So we get really clear with our clients on what is that pathway to success. And once we know that I can gamify your business, I can build an entire physical product around it.

What we tell clients is that there's three different types of campaigns and it's all aligned to the customer lifecycle. Is your goal customer acquisition? That is how people find you to.

Speaker C: 00:07:13

Buying your products and services.

Mark Stern: 00:07:14

Or is your goal delivery, which is you bought my product and service. This is onboarding to getting the outcome.

Speaker C: 00:07:19

Or is it retention? Retention could be recognition. You hit a milestone, I want to celebrate you.

Mark Stern: 00:07:24

It could be the next journey that they need to go on or other.

Speaker C: 00:07:27

Means to increase lifetime value. So we look at things in the.

Mark Stern: 00:07:30

Lens of is your goal acquisition, delivery or retention? And through that lens, the strategy and.

Speaker C: 00:07:36

How we'd approach building a physical product.

Mark Stern: 00:07:39

Changes because the goal of that product is different. And that's it.

Speaker C: 00:07:43

So that's what we anchor on.

Mark Stern: 00:07:44

And from there we can go through.

Speaker C: 00:07:46

Your product or your business or your.

Mark Stern: 00:07:47

Strategy and then literally create a physical resource around what it is that you do.

Freddy D: 00:07:52

Well, that's really clever. And you hit the three things. And I think it also can go further.

And you got dealing with suppliers, distributors, complementary businesses, ancillary businesses, contractors that you're working with gives the ability for a company to really hit their entire ecosystem.

Mark Stern: 00:08:10

You're right.

Speaker C: 00:08:11

And when we work with clients, we.

Mark Stern: 00:08:13

Want to make it as easy as possible. We can not only strategize and lay.

Speaker C: 00:08:17

Out the groundwork and the plan, but.

Mark Stern: 00:08:18

We can do all the design. We are a distributor, we can send everything and manage the entire production process.

And we do have a warehouse so we can hold your inventory and ship it out globally.

Speaker C: 00:08:27

But you're right, we have a huge partner network as a result.

Mark Stern: 00:08:30

But our goal Is if we only did the strategy, it becomes overwhelming to think through how to put all the pieces together. So the benefit of being end to end is we can not only help you realize what is possible, but we.

Speaker C: 00:08:43

Can bring it to life and then manage the distribution globally or in the.

Mark Stern: 00:08:46

United States or in your local market for you. So we really try and make it as easy as possible because there are a lot of moving pieces for us. We have it down to a work of art.

Speaker C: 00:08:54

It's for me, like eating candy, how.

Mark Stern: 00:08:56

Much fun we have with what we do.

Freddy D: 00:08:58

Absolutely. And before we start recording, you showed me a couple of different products and you said one of them was a game for a law firm. So expand upon that.

How does that really come about?

Mark Stern: 00:09:08

Yeah. So we had this box right here that we created a holding box for a law firm that when they work.

Speaker C: 00:09:13

With clients, a lot of what their.

Mark Stern: 00:09:14

Clientele is personal injury they've gotten in car accidents, and. And there's a certain methodology of things that they want their clients to do.

Speaker C: 00:09:22

To maximize their potential claim. And so what we did was we.

Mark Stern: 00:09:26

Just went through their process, broke it down into phases, and basically turned it into a board game that if you follow it step by step, you literally will be set up for success to.

Speaker C: 00:09:37

Get the maximum claim at the end of the process.

Mark Stern: 00:09:40

And so this is. That's a perfect example of just how.

Speaker C: 00:09:43

Do we make it stand out differently for them. And so it's been really cool to.

Mark Stern: 00:09:47

See how they've been able to leverage it. Games are powerful, though, in terms of just how you can leverage that as a modality. Because why do I like games?

Well, I know that when you make things into a game, it feels like a new opportunity. It feels like something different. And on top of that, like these resources that we create, I don't want.

Speaker C: 00:10:03

You to throw it out. I want you to keep them.

Mark Stern: 00:10:06

So as we engineer these experiences for.

Speaker C: 00:10:07

Our clients, it truly is thinking through.

Mark Stern: 00:10:09

What do you already save in your life? And how do I create a product that makes you want to have it taking up real estate in your household?

Freddy D: 00:10:15

That's brilliant because you just turn something that'd be mundane into something that's kind of fun.

And that changes the whole equation because now they're going to get more engaged versus here's a booklet, and there's 300 pages, which is boring as everything and nobody ever reads it.

Mark Stern: 00:10:34

Yeah, so I'm kind of like, like a third grader in the sense of.

Speaker C: 00:10:38

Like, I like pretty pictures, not more.

Mark Stern: 00:10:39

Black and white words.

Speaker C: 00:10:41

And so if you can visually show.

Mark Stern: 00:10:42

Me how to navigate the process, you're going to win me so much f. So this is where some of the products we take.

Speaker C: 00:10:48

It's one thing to say, go read a book.

Mark Stern: 00:10:49

We have this product that just hit the market called 57 Hats.

Speaker C: 00:10:53

The goal of this product is it's an interactive experience, leveraging cards and a.

Mark Stern: 00:10:57

Game board to help you quickly identify how many hats you're wearing in your business. And that's just giving you, as a business owner, a powerful vernacular because you may not realize the hats that you're wearing.

But until you can really see visually.

Speaker C: 00:11:10

Oh, this is why I'm overwhelmed, or.

Mark Stern: 00:11:12

This is why a member of my team is overwhelmed. It's a really powerful modality. Then go read this book. You are literally being able to manage it. And we've been seeing people come to.

Speaker C: 00:11:21

Us saying in 10 to 15 minutes.

Mark Stern: 00:11:23

They'Ve had massive breakthroughs just leveraging this one product that helped them see massive gaps in their business and the opportunity to get out of the day to day.

Speaker C: 00:11:32

And so that's like the power of.

Mark Stern: 00:11:33

Physical is that we can accelerate that.

Speaker C: 00:11:35

Learning curve by just taking you through.

Mark Stern: 00:11:36

An experience and it feels like a new opportunity.

Freddy D: 00:11:39

Oh, that's really wonderful. I like the idea of what you guys have got because you're right.

When we talked earlier, I've never heard anybody come up with something like this, but it's really a complete game changer because you're creating engagement on all levels.

Mark Stern: 00:11:53

And engagement, there's just so much packed into that because it's the simplicity of if I know where you are in my process, because I have a really well defined process, then I know how to provide the best support to you. So with the law firm as an example, they have six different phases in terms of how they navigate people through the process.

You can see here we have it on the side of the box, kind.

Speaker C: 00:12:13

Of their journey that they go on. If I know you're at a certain point in the process, then I know how to have a more tailored conversation.

Mark Stern: 00:12:18

To you, and we just turn it into a fun, interactive experience. And so I want to know is if I know where you are along any of the journeys we build out, I know what kind of conversation to have.

If you're stuck, I know how to get you unstuck because I know exactly where you are and what people usually go through at that point in the process.

Freddy D: 00:12:34

And beyond that, I see it as a complete differentiator in business because you've got the let's stick with the law firm there, they're shopping around different law firms, perhaps trying to get a feel who's going to take care of them the best. That's a completely game changing differentiator because someone's going to go, wow, these other guys gave me a pamphlet, 300 pages.

And here's something that I can understand, number one. Number two, it makes it easy for me to understand the services and how these guys are going to help me complete game changer deals done.

Mark Stern: 00:13:06

And what's cool about what you just described, it's leveraging it as an acquisition strategy. And so that's a perfect example to say let us send you this kit that literally will set you up for success.

If it's leveraged as an acquisition play, it can be a really powerful nurture play to start to build a relationship. You know, 57 hats is an example, is not a delivery play, it's an acquisition play.

Because how we're leveraging this is a free plus ship, just pay shipping. We'll send you out the box set.

Speaker C: 00:13:31

But the goal is that as you.

Mark Stern: 00:13:33

Start to uncover other gaps in your business or if I introduce and show you new pain points that you know you want to address, you know, our goal is we have the solutions to.

Speaker C: 00:13:42

Ascend you on the back end to.

Mark Stern: 00:13:44

Other higher ticket products and services. But we're leveraging this as a way to stand out in the marketplace as something different. And again, if you help someone get.

Freddy D: 00:13:52

A breakthrough, they become a super fan.

Speaker C: 00:13:54

Okay, you're right, they are a super fan.

Mark Stern: 00:13:55

Like how what's next? How Altium.

Speaker C: 00:13:57

This is working for me.

Mark Stern: 00:13:59

What's the next thing you can do to help me?

Freddy D: 00:14:01

Yeah, and it's the same thing going with the existing customers because you can use that for, as we talked earlier, for retention. That can turn into a referral mechanism that you create a super fan out of that customer. That customer becomes your sales force.

And that word of mouth marketing, you can't pay for it. But more importantly, it collapses the whole sales cycle because now that person says, oh, Johnny says I need to go talk to Mark.

I'm just going to go talk to Mark. I'm not price shopping, I'm not doing anything else because Johnny said Mark's the dude.

Speaker C: 00:14:36

Boom. And on the retention, I mean that's just scratching the surface.

Mark Stern: 00:14:39

The great thing about the retention aspect of this realm is I can show you a different example.

Speaker C: 00:14:44

We have a client in the insurance space.

Mark Stern: 00:14:46

One of the things that we do is part of retention is also recognition. Can I show you a Pathway to success and want you to keep playing the game to ascend to the next pathway.

ClickFunnels, if you're familiar with ClickFunnels, does this brilliantly with their 2 comma Club Award.

Speaker C: 00:15:01

It's a retention play because in order to earn the award, there's lots of.

Mark Stern: 00:15:04

People out there that want that plaque on their wall.

Speaker C: 00:15:07

They defined a game and said, in.

Mark Stern: 00:15:09

Order to get this, you need to generate a million dollars in a funnel using ClickFunnels.

Speaker C: 00:15:14

If you don't use clickfunnels, you won't qualify.

Mark Stern: 00:15:16

So it's a really powerful recognition play.

Speaker C: 00:15:18

But it's also retention play in the.

Mark Stern: 00:15:20

Same realm for the insurance client. I don't know if you remember when the United States was releasing a new.

Speaker C: 00:15:25

Quarter for every state.

Mark Stern: 00:15:27

Do you remember that?

I think that may have been almost 20 years ago, but this was the US updated the quarter and on the back of every quarter represented a different state.

Speaker C: 00:15:37

And they were slowly introducing new states. My father and I had a coin.

Mark Stern: 00:15:41

Board of the United States and as we would collect the quarters, we would.

Speaker C: 00:15:46

Push it into the coin board.

Mark Stern: 00:15:47

And in the spirit of collection, collection is a retention strategy because you want.

Speaker C: 00:15:54

To collect them all. We took the same concept with this.

Mark Stern: 00:15:56

Client and said as they progress through the different phases, they could earn a.

Speaker C: 00:16:01

Coin and their coin they can press.

Mark Stern: 00:16:03

Into their coin board. We wanted them to see gaps missing to make them say, I want to complete the series, which is a really powerful retention play.

Speaker C: 00:16:13

There's different ways to envision this that say, I'm starting to play this game.

Mark Stern: 00:16:17

What I don't want is just one of the three pieces. It's no different than we've done it with boxes as well. This insider on the wall behind me, these three tiles, there's three different boxes.

You can get box one of three, but in order to get box two.

Speaker C: 00:16:31

Of three and three of three, those are retention plays.

Mark Stern: 00:16:33

I want to create this gap that.

Speaker C: 00:16:35

You'Re going to want to keep playing.

Mark Stern: 00:16:36

The game in order to collect all the pieces. And by the way, when you make it through, you're going to be at.

Speaker C: 00:16:42

A different place in your business, which is really powerful. So in the spirit of superfans, this gamification and even incentive structure is a.

Mark Stern: 00:16:49

Really powerful retention play.

Freddy D: 00:16:51

Could you share Mark with our listeners a story of how you've helped a company gamify their business that in turn creates huge growth for their business?

Mark Stern: 00:17:02

There's a couple I can tell you. We had a client that is on the print on demand space. We Introduced a box with their challenge.

What was so powerful about it is when we introduced box, it doubled the.

Speaker C: 00:17:13

Amount of people who joined the challenge.

Mark Stern: 00:17:15

So you saw their intake double in size and then on the back end.

Speaker C: 00:17:19

Their back end offer also doubled in.

Mark Stern: 00:17:22

Terms of sales, which 4x the power of the campaign. But in addition to that, because we.

Speaker C: 00:17:26

Gamified every step of the process for this entry product, the amount of social.

Mark Stern: 00:17:31

Proof of activating their superfans and their audience. It was incredible because he had pictures after pictures because he incentivized people when.

Speaker C: 00:17:39

They hit certain junctions to share or to post, which created all this excitement.

Mark Stern: 00:17:45

And so that's a powerful example of it. We had a client in the finance.

Speaker C: 00:17:49

Space, she has a massive virtual event.

Mark Stern: 00:17:51

When we introduced box as part of her virtual event strategy, two things happened.

Speaker C: 00:17:55

Her show up rates increased by 17%.

Mark Stern: 00:17:58

So more people were showing up.

Speaker C: 00:17:59

And then she doubled her backing conversion.

Mark Stern: 00:18:02

Which just showed that the only thing that had changed and she had been executing this event for years. The only thing that changed with this test was she introduced the box as a powerful strategy.

We had another client that had a massive Launch for a $2,000 product and she had a coaching program, generally about 3,000 people to 4,000 people enroll in.

Speaker C: 00:18:23

Every year when she makes it available. The one thing that we did was.

Mark Stern: 00:18:26

To say you're welcome to get a.

Speaker C: 00:18:27

Refund at any point. All we ask you to do is.

Mark Stern: 00:18:29

Send back your box. Just like if you were to buy something on Amazon, if you wanted to return it, to get your refund back, you need to return the item.

And we saw her refund rates in the first 30 days drop down to less than half a percent. So like when you're talking about multi million dollar launch, huge impact.

And on top of that, you get the social proof and the excitement and the guidance because a lot of what we want to do with these vox experiences.

Speaker C: 00:18:55

I see so many businesses dump the outcome on you, saying you bought product.

Mark Stern: 00:18:59

Because you want this result. But it's overwhelming because they don't have that pathway to show me how I get from the beginning to the end. And if I can show you, let's.

Speaker C: 00:19:06

Break it down into small phases or small steps.

Mark Stern: 00:19:09

If you complete phase one and are.

Speaker C: 00:19:12

Now on phase two, I can show.

Mark Stern: 00:19:13

You you've gone through a transformation because you're no longer at the beginning, you're one step closer to the end. But you see the pathway and I can start to get you into momentum. And that's exactly what we're seeing with our students. As well.

So there's so many different cases like that that we see even for us testing out this product hitting the market 57 hats. What's been amazing about it is the.

Speaker C: 00:19:33

Amount of people who want to partner with us or collaborate us or build their own front end business tools.

Mark Stern: 00:19:38

Just as a showcase of seeing our product.

Speaker C: 00:19:41

It's been such a fun thing to watch introduced to the market and even.

Mark Stern: 00:19:45

With our cold traffic ads on Facebook, a lot of people have their thoughts.

Speaker C: 00:19:49

On the paid traffic game right now.

Mark Stern: 00:19:51

Especially with meta out of the gate. Within our first week we were able to take this campaign with our ads that we were testing to be break even.

So it was self liquidating and now profitable almost within a week of launching.

Speaker C: 00:20:04

The product and testing the funnel.

Mark Stern: 00:20:05

So that's what's been incredible of the power of introducing something physical as a differentiator in this game.

Freddy D: 00:20:11

That's great stories actually.

Overall, one of the things that you said I want to kind of reemphasize is it helps somebody manage the process and understand where they're at in the process.

When I was selling software back in the day, the biggest thing that I had done that differentiated me and created my success was I never got stuck into the technology. I really talked about the business aspects and how technology is going to impact the business.

And then a lot of times I worked what I would call the sale backwards because of the fact that people say, well we bought it, we expect to be productive next week. It doesn't work that way. And so we would lay out all the steps that were necessary for them to reach profitability.

But I had to do it on a marker board and they would write it all down because we would collectively do it. So what you've done is taken that process and you've gamified it and now they've got something that they can measure where they're at.

The reason I'm bringing it up because it can become a good sales tool for people selling technology or whatever type of products.

It's going to take some time to get it implemented and get it set up into an organization because they get to run their old way as they're implementing the new way. And this gives them a roadmap.

Mark Stern: 00:21:24

I mean, to me it's everything just.

Speaker C: 00:21:26

Because it allows me to really see where we are in the process.

Mark Stern: 00:21:30

And so that is for me, when clients come and spend a day with us in Austin, like that is exactly.

Speaker C: 00:21:35

What I need to clearly break down.

Mark Stern: 00:21:37

Because without it, I can't build a process. And so that's why seeing that 10,000 foot view when you build that journey map out and it's very high level in terms of what I would show a client.

That's sales collateral, that's material that I can put as part of my pitch because I can show you. Let me show you the 10,000 foot.

Speaker C: 00:21:53

View of how we're going to get you that result.

Mark Stern: 00:21:55

A lot of people in the sales process don't do a good job of that.

And so that's kind of where it's really cool that when we go through this experience, how much sales collateral gets created for our clients just because we're forcing them to get clear on how.

Speaker C: 00:22:08

They'Re selling their product or getting that.

Mark Stern: 00:22:10

Result for their customer.

Freddy D: 00:22:11

That's why I was so successful. As I talked about the strategy and the implementation of the technology.

And I would clearly say, hey, there's three other products in the market space that do exactly what we do, otherwise they wouldn't be in business. But here's how we're going to help you achieve your business goals. And it changed the whole conversation.

Speaker C: 00:22:30

Wow.

Mark Stern: 00:22:31

I can totally see for me like, I love that. It's exactly what we love to hear.

Freddy D: 00:22:35

Now you're helping businesses do that in a very clever way. Wish that would have existed like 20 years ago.

Mark Stern: 00:22:41

It's a lot easier now. I will tell you that I was going to say 20 years ago. Such a different game and where we are.

Never would have imagined we'd be having the conversations around AI that we are these days.

Freddy D: 00:22:51

So tell us a little bit about the process that you go through with the companies. Let's just pick home improvement. I do kitchen remodeling.

Mark Stern: 00:22:59

So what we do is there's one thing that we look at in the forefront. We'll take you through our virtual strategy session. This is because we need to understand the scope of the business.

And so one of the things we talk about with clients is that we call it the Tele2 journeys.

Speaker C: 00:23:10

There's a journey in terms of how people can navigate through your products and services. And then for every product or service.

Mark Stern: 00:23:17

I can click in and there could be a journey of how I should navigate it.

So if I have an entire comprehensive program that has courses and coaching and done for you and whatnot, I probably have a clear value ladder of how I want to send people or send people throughout or how they should be engaging with me.

Speaker C: 00:23:34

But for the course, I could build.

Mark Stern: 00:23:36

A process for the coaching program, I could build a process for the done for you, I can build a process around as well.

And so that's why knowing how I navigate through your business is one journey and then if I click into the product or service I bought, that's a separate journey. So knowing what the big vision is of the business is where we really anchor people. So in this, like you may be selling product A, B or C, but.

Speaker C: 00:23:56

There'S a whole universe of how you can.

Mark Stern: 00:23:58

When we build any experience out, it.

Speaker C: 00:24:00

Needs to be about focused on the product or service they bought. But we need to seed your universe.

Mark Stern: 00:24:05

That is really important because too many businesses sell the thing, but they forget to tell their customer or clients all.

Speaker C: 00:24:12

The other ways that they can serve them.

Mark Stern: 00:24:14

And then if they don't know, they're.

Speaker C: 00:24:16

Going to look for those solutions outward.

Mark Stern: 00:24:18

So this is kind of where any experience I want to delve deep on.

Speaker C: 00:24:21

The process or the product or service.

Mark Stern: 00:24:23

But I also want to tell the story of your universe. So we like to anchor on what's the big vision, what's the goals of the business, what are some of the obstacles that you're facing.

We like to see your team structure and all of the pieces. We like to get a sense of your brand identity and your product suite. We'd love to get a sense of.

Speaker C: 00:24:37

How you currently acquire customers and do.

Mark Stern: 00:24:39

You have social proof? So that's kind of where we start because what ends up happening is sometimes people have come to us saying I'd love to build an experience here.

And then we delve into their business and we can quickly say that's an opportunity. But let me show you some other opportunities to consider just based on the nature of knowing what the pieces of the business are.

And then from there what typically happens is once we know the product or service we want to start on, people typically love to fly to Austin just because you can see so many modalities of how we built out these experiences.

Speaker C: 00:25:08

Across so many different industries.

Mark Stern: 00:25:10

And then we literally will break down your business and come up with the blueprint of what we're going to build out.

Speaker C: 00:25:16

So that's a lot of where we anchor from there.

Mark Stern: 00:25:18

Once we land on the blueprint, we like to show clients, here's the story, here's the experience, here's a very high level journey that we identified and then we'd like to give you your numbers if you were to move forward with this campaign based on the inputs that you gave us.

Here's a forecasting model of potential revenue generated as well as potential profitability, taking into consideration the hard cost of goods, the build out, all the factors, shipping.

Speaker C: 00:25:42

So you know your numbers before you get into our process.

Mark Stern: 00:25:44

And so that's really important for us to see the potential upside, to make.

Speaker C: 00:25:47

Sure that the campaign makes sense.

Mark Stern: 00:25:49

And then from there, when you look at the numbers, we love to bring it to life.

So we'll bring to life the campaign and get it out to market, and we can manage that process end to end, whether you have us do the warehousing and fulfillment or whether you have.

Speaker C: 00:26:00

Your own solution as well.

Mark Stern: 00:26:01

So that's where we play. And so just given the nature of.

Speaker C: 00:26:04

Any business, it just allows us to.

Mark Stern: 00:26:06

Go deeper and be a lot more intimate. And I think that that's really key here, because when we build out these experiences, it's an enabler to your business strategy.

So if we don't go deeper into what it is that you're doing, we don't want to do is engineer an experience with these boxes that doesn't lead people to the natural next step as.

Speaker C: 00:26:25

To what your business strategy is.

Mark Stern: 00:26:27

I hope that made sense.

Freddy D: 00:26:28

Yeah, no, it totally does.

And where I was just thinking is that, for example, the home improvement industry is probably notorious for doing a great job and then disappearing, and you never hear from them again.

And so I see this as a mechanism, one to help acquire, but as we talked earlier, is another mechanism to turn that customer into a super fan and giving that company an ability to maintain a relationship with the customer.

Mark Stern: 00:26:56

It can be.

Speaker C: 00:26:56

And so you're right in the sense.

Mark Stern: 00:26:58

Of I can build a whole process or experience around the first engagement we do with your home.

Speaker C: 00:27:04

And I can also start to introduce.

Mark Stern: 00:27:06

Other capabilities, whatever the types of things.

Speaker C: 00:27:08

That you should consider, could consider.

Mark Stern: 00:27:10

And then from a retention standpoint, how do I stay top of mind? Because a lot of retention in that game is being top of mind. And whether it is the next part of the equation, whether it's a flat mailer or postcard.

We know, we talked about postcards prior to this call. There's so many different ways that you could do to be top of mind.

Because I think I read a statistic that was 80% of people buy from the person, the first person that sells to them. And so especially if this is someone that has worked with you and had a good experience, the question is, how do you continue to be top of mind?

So they know that you are diversified in some regards of other things that you can do to help them.

Freddy D: 00:27:46

Because out of sight, out of mind. Years ago, when I got divorced, I had to sell the house and I had two realtors and they helped get the sale.

It worked out because my ex wife didn't like one of the realtors, but she liked the other one. So we get stuff done, but after it's all done and over with and moved into an apartment for a little while.

And then once everything got wrapped up, I was going to look for a house. I never heard from those people again. I went with something completely different of a realtor because I couldn't even find their business cards.

Never heard from them, nothing.

Mark Stern: 00:28:17

It's crazy too because you're right, it's money on the table that they're leaving just simply by not re engaging their clientele base, you've created a cool tool.

Freddy D: 00:28:26

That can act as that.

Mark Stern: 00:28:27

And I mean I can't even tell you that for even us when we've.

Speaker C: 00:28:31

Introduced things like when we introduced awards.

Mark Stern: 00:28:33

And recognition and if you wanted to create your own custom plaques or things like that, we didn't tell clients initially that that was something that we can support with. We can support with really anything that.

Speaker C: 00:28:42

Goes to print live event signage.

Mark Stern: 00:28:44

And so it's amazing how just making them aware of other ways that you can serve them. And again it can be introduced when.

Speaker C: 00:28:51

You introduce the capability.

Mark Stern: 00:28:52

I mean I have this capability to help with awards or to help with.

Speaker C: 00:28:56

Live event signage or trade show booths.

Mark Stern: 00:28:58

But if I do and I just let them know part of it's just the education, they may go, I did not even know you did that. And that's a powerful means to say for me it may result in lifetime.

Speaker C: 00:29:08

Value, increasing lifetime value of the customers for them.

Mark Stern: 00:29:11

They know that they know like and trust me because they've worked with me before and they don't have to worry about is this person going to do.

Speaker C: 00:29:18

What they say or deliver the quality.

Mark Stern: 00:29:19

That they're going to say because they already have that expectation and a good experience of what it's like working with me.

Speaker C: 00:29:25

So that is like the power of.

Mark Stern: 00:29:26

That to leverage that as a reengagement.

Freddy D: 00:29:28

For sure, it's a huge mechanism because same thing I would do when I had resellers or distributors around the world. I wouldn't just recognize the agency, we would make plaques and give it to the agency.

But I also would recognize the sales rep that was selling the most of my product. Because at the end of the day it wasn't the owner of the agency selling, it was their sales guy or gal.

And so to get mind share when you got 60 distributors in different parts of the world, how do you differentiate yourself? And that was one of the ways is I would recognize the individual that sold the most of my product as well as the agency.

Mark Stern: 00:30:03

Boom. You're right. And, like, there is just so much there, but the power of recognition with the awards. Again, people don't throw out awards.

You put their name on something, they.

Speaker C: 00:30:13

Keep it for life.

Mark Stern: 00:30:14

And so that's one of the most powerful modalities.

Speaker C: 00:30:17

And so now you're taking up real.

Mark Stern: 00:30:19

Estate in their household because you gave them something that recognized them.

Freddy D: 00:30:23

One of my quotes in my book is people crawl through broken glass for appreciation. Recognition.

Mark Stern: 00:30:28

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker C: 00:30:30

I heard a quote from Brooke Castillo.

Mark Stern: 00:30:32

Who'S a life coach and trains, certifies people on being a life coach. But she said, a lot of people, the last time they were recognized was their high school graduation.

And I take it a step further to say the last time that they were recognized or seen, maybe their high school graduation, but also maybe, I would say your wedding day.

Speaker C: 00:30:49

But for a lot of people, they don't feel seen.

Mark Stern: 00:30:52

And it's a really powerful thing when you can come forward and recognize them for achievement. So just defining that strategy for your.

Speaker C: 00:30:58

Clients so they can then take it.

Mark Stern: 00:31:00

Down to their people, It's a powerful way to build super fans.

Freddy D: 00:31:03

It's totally. It's what I wrote in the book. And you've got a nice platform that allows to do that.

So do you have any major takeaways that you can share with the audience that they can put into play?

Mark Stern: 00:31:13

Yeah, I have two that I can share.

Speaker C: 00:31:14

The first one is anytime we define customer journey. So if you're thinking about how am.

Mark Stern: 00:31:19

I guiding my customers to an outcome.

Speaker C: 00:31:21

You always start with the end in mind.

Mark Stern: 00:31:24

So what does success look like?

Speaker C: 00:31:25

A lot of business owners don't do.

Mark Stern: 00:31:27

A good job defining success. And what I mean by that, I like to use the analogy of if.

Speaker C: 00:31:32

You'Re running a race or you're running a marathon.

Mark Stern: 00:31:34

If I were to break a marathon down into three phases, I could say.

Speaker C: 00:31:38

Phase one is preparing for the marathon, phase two is running the marathon, and.

Mark Stern: 00:31:43

Phase three is post marathon. Like, when you finish the marathon. What's powerful about this is success in this, to me is, have you earned the medal?

Because I know that if you've earned.

Speaker C: 00:31:56

The medal at the end of the.

Mark Stern: 00:31:58

Race, you have successfully started and completed the race. And so it is a physical emblem, we call them jewels, that define success.

Speaker C: 00:32:06

It's the same thing when you graduate from college or university.

Mark Stern: 00:32:10

If you have the diploma, then I know without a shadow of a doubt you've completed the journey. Through college and.

Speaker C: 00:32:15

And receive the diploma. I know if you're a boy scout.

Mark Stern: 00:32:18

And you have your Eagle Scout and you have the Eagle Scout badge, that you've successfully gone from Cub Scout to achieving it.

Speaker C: 00:32:25

I know that if you're doing karate and you start with a white belt and your goal is to get the black belt and you earn the black.

Mark Stern: 00:32:31

Belt, without a shadow of a doubt.

Speaker C: 00:32:33

You'Ve been successful on that journey.

Mark Stern: 00:32:35

We, as business owners do not do a good job of defining what success is.

Speaker C: 00:32:40

The black belt, the diplomatic, the super bowl ring, the thing that is undeniable.

Mark Stern: 00:32:44

I achieved this outcome because we haven't, as business owners, I see this again and again.

Speaker C: 00:32:49

Done a good job defining what is success.

Mark Stern: 00:32:51

And so when you define what success.

Speaker C: 00:32:53

Is for your customer, and there's so.

Mark Stern: 00:32:55

Many ways to do it, it could be black and white.

Speaker C: 00:32:56

If you're in the weight loss space.

Mark Stern: 00:32:58

It'S hard to say, lose £20, because losing £20 for Person A versus Person B can be very different things. But I can set up parameters of success, and that just allow people to know, have I been successful in this process?

Speaker C: 00:33:12

Yes or no? Not.

Mark Stern: 00:33:15

I think I've been successful. I think I hit it. And so this is the thing that I would just say, any journey, we want to define success.

Speaker C: 00:33:21

We want to define outcome on the end.

Mark Stern: 00:33:23

Because if I have that as a back end, I can go back to the beginning and say, okay, how are we onboarding people and preparing them for this journey?

Speaker C: 00:33:31

And have I set up the mechanics.

Mark Stern: 00:33:33

The phases to take them from the beginning to the end to get that outcome? And so this is kind of where it actually takes a lot of pressure off the business owner if you have.

Speaker C: 00:33:43

A clear definition for what success looks like. For me, it's a box.

Mark Stern: 00:33:45

Did we launch a box at the.

Speaker C: 00:33:46

End of the process?

Mark Stern: 00:33:47

If we didn't, then we weren't successful because that's what we do.

Speaker C: 00:33:51

Like, you're hiring us to build this whole physical experience.

Mark Stern: 00:33:53

So if I know this is my jewel without a shadow of a doubt, that we successfully completed this process without that, we have. It's very black and white. So that's the first thing I would tell people, just in terms of how to start to think about it.

And the second thing is we love this idea of leading with intentionality, especially with the things we save.

Speaker C: 00:34:12

And so just to give you nuggets.

Mark Stern: 00:34:14

About how we think about the box experiences, I know that things like a book, when you read a book, you put it on a bookshelf. You typically don't throw out a book.

Speaker C: 00:34:22

So you'll see a lot of the.

Mark Stern: 00:34:23

Experiences that we build are a little bit bigger than a book.

Speaker C: 00:34:26

We'll brand the spine because I want.

Mark Stern: 00:34:27

You to put it on your bookshelf. Things with replayability.

Speaker C: 00:34:31

A board game. You don't play Monopoly and then throw it out.

Mark Stern: 00:34:34

You don't play golf with your golf.

Speaker C: 00:34:36

Clubs and then throw your golf clubs.

Mark Stern: 00:34:37

Out of that basketball.

Speaker C: 00:34:39

Same thing with DVD CDs.

Mark Stern: 00:34:40

You don't watch them maybe once and just throw out the dvd. My dad still has his eight track tapes and his records. Even though he has no means to play his eight track tapes. And records are coming back.

You have an eight track player.

Freddy D: 00:34:52

I don't have an eight track player, but I do have records. I do have a whole closet over here full of books and training materials and everything else.

Speaker C: 00:35:00

It's so funny to think of the.

Mark Stern: 00:35:02

Strategy of why do I save this? Because there's that element of replayability. So this is kind of where like.

Speaker C: 00:35:07

The reusability, the replayability, how we think.

Mark Stern: 00:35:09

About that and experience people save. In the last two categories, Recognition that we've already hit on. If you put something like, I'm never going to throw out my graduation diploma.

It's a piece of paper. It is a piece of paper that costs the university two or $3. But we save it for our lives, like the rest of our lives.

Speaker C: 00:35:26

And the last one is collection.

Freddy D: 00:35:27

It defines who we are.

Mark Stern: 00:35:28

Defines who we are and something we're proud of.

Speaker C: 00:35:30

It's something that's recognizing us for an achievement.

Freddy D: 00:35:33

Yeah, I got plaques. I got plaques. I totally agree. Because I got plaques of being number one sales guy up on the wall right there. They got ribbons.

When I was in a drafting of all awards I got for drafting, doing design work.

Speaker C: 00:35:45

There are empty nesters.

Mark Stern: 00:35:47

People whose kids have graduated and moved out of the house that they still have in their children's room. The soccer trophy they got when they.

Speaker C: 00:35:54

Were three or four years old.

Mark Stern: 00:35:55

Like, it's amazing how just the power of recognition.

Speaker C: 00:35:59

And the last category is collection.

Mark Stern: 00:36:00

Things that you collect. Beanie babies, pogs, baseball cards, Lego sets, stamps, coins.

Speaker C: 00:36:07

The inherent nature of collection.

Mark Stern: 00:36:09

If I'm collecting, and this is a perfect example, if I was collecting all the quarters and this US map, I'm never going to throw it out because it's the desire to complete the collection.

Speaker C: 00:36:19

And when the collection's complete, you typically.

Mark Stern: 00:36:20

Don'T turn around and throw it out.

Speaker C: 00:36:22

There's value and meaning into this.

Mark Stern: 00:36:24

And so thinking about that intentionality, if you are going to play the physical game. This is kind of where I'm very much against swag.

Speaker C: 00:36:30

We joke and say swag means stuff without a goal.

Mark Stern: 00:36:33

Stop sending swag because when you put your branded stuff out there, that's about.

Speaker C: 00:36:38

You in that mug you saw on discount mugs or 4imprint.

Mark Stern: 00:36:41

Like the problem with that is if I have no connection and we're talking about superfans, if I don't have that.

Speaker C: 00:36:47

Connection and community and I'm not a.

Mark Stern: 00:36:49

Super fan, it's stuff and stuff gets.

Speaker C: 00:36:51

Left in the hotel or thrown out.

Mark Stern: 00:36:53

Or given the goodwill.

Speaker C: 00:36:55

And so that intentionality is a really, really powerful means to really stand out differently.

Mark Stern: 00:37:00

I think those are my nuggets.

Speaker C: 00:37:01

I hope these were good.

Freddy D: 00:37:02

Those are very well said, excellent nuggets because they're great takeaways for our listeners because you're creating a feeling and people will forget what you said, people will forget what you've done, but nobody will forget how you made them feel. You know, your custom box agency creates a feeling.

Mark Stern: 00:37:19

I think it's so important this day and age and especially as AI just becomes more. This digital distrust you're seeing, it's so powerful. I mean, we are human, we like touch, we need touch.

Speaker C: 00:37:29

It's just we're losing that element when we go so extreme digital. And you're right in terms of that emotional connection and making it feel more personal and making it feel more for.

Mark Stern: 00:37:39

Me and helping me be more successful. I think that's the power of.

Freddy D: 00:37:42

And that's how you differentiate yourself in business. So, Mark, it's been a great conversation, a lot of excellent information for our listeners. Hope that they've taken notes and how can people find you?

Speaker C: 00:37:54

Yeah, thank you for asking.

Mark Stern: 00:37:55

Easiest thing to do is you can go to customboxagency.com, check out our website and then you can always look me up on LinkedIn or Facebook. Feel free to message me. We love connecting with people. We love hearing what you do.

If you go to our website, you can schedule a free consultation with a member of our team and we can help you think about how can you deploy this strategy in your business.

Freddy D: 00:38:12

You have something as a giveaway too for our listeners?

Mark Stern: 00:38:15

Yeah. We built a product called Activate. Activate Deck is a tool to help business owners easily lay out their customer acquisition strategy.

So we were leveraging the power of cards as a modality to help you visualize how people discover you to buying your products and services. And if you go to activateseries.com what's really powerful about that is you can opt in for free.

We have about 20 different blueprints of how different seven and eight figure business owners are acquiring customers and you can.

Speaker C: 00:38:45

See their exact blueprint for how we do it.

Mark Stern: 00:38:47

So we'd love to give that as a gift.

Freddy D: 00:38:49

That's a wonderful gift. We'll make sure that's in the show notes for our listeners.

And Mark, thank you again so much for your time and being a guest on a business Superfans podcast.

Mark Stern: 00:38:58

Freddie D. Thank you for having me.

Speaker C: 00:38:59

This has been a lot of fun.

Freddy D: 00:39:01

Hey Superfans superstar Freddie D. Here.

Before we wrap, here's your three A playbook power move to attract ideal clients, turn them into advocates, and accelerate your business success. So here's a top insight from today's episode.

If you want to accelerate business growth, stop dumping information and start engineering experiences that show people exactly how to win. So here's your business growth action step.

Design a physical or digital success journey map that breaks your customer's path into clear, gamified milestones that they can visibly complete. Then reward progress to keep momentum alive.

If today's conversation sparked an idea for you, or you know of a fellow business leader who could benefit, share it with them. Support the show with the donation and grab the full breakdown in the show notes.

Let's accelerate together and start creating business super fans who champion your brand.